[Reader-list] .Net / Hailstorm Initiative

[Menso Heus]

On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 10:21:25AM +0530, pankaj at sarai.net wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 10:21:46PM +0200, Menso Heus wrote:
> >On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 10:04:36AM -0700, Neeraj Sharma wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> recently, one of those business channels was talking
> [snip]
> >The point that I'm not really getting is: why would I 
> >access the net through their servers? I can log in to 
> >their system, sure, but it's not like it's functioning 
> >as a gateway.
> 
> The same reason why you won't compile the kernel.
> People are lazy, people don't want to see what is 
> happening underneath the system they use and I say
> why should they? 

It's not as much a question of being lazy but more what you 
expect of your Desktop operating system: do you want it to be
some experimental OS and play around with it for a long time
before you can get it to do usefull things or do you want to
spend that time doing actual *work* on it.
As pointy haired as it might sound, not everyone can afford 
the time to do this (and yes, I actually always compile my 
own kernels, but for other reasons though :)

If you're telling me you think MS has the capacity to function 
as a gateway for 90% of the Internet users I'm going to laugh
very loud though. 
I'm not saying it's impossible but it wil require a lot of effort
and money from everyone, including your local ISP I think and 
there is not a real reason for them to cooperate (though where 
there's money there's MS and magical things happen :)

> just as u say why should i learn
> to compile the kernel just to listen to music.
> Jack says "why do i care which server am i going 
> through to talk to bob?". when Microsoft Office Xp
> provides a "default" way to share files with bob
> why would jack try to find some alternative Free Open 
> blah blah way to do the same.

I don't know about this one, people take taxi's too, but if I
tell them that in my cab they will be recorded by an installed
camera or that the chance for this is a lot bigger than with 
other cabs, I think a lot of people might not want to take it 
(some might if you make the camera cab cheaper for example).

> No one reads the lie-sense before pressing that "I Agree"
> button.

Some people do and the Internet has the funny thing to it that, when
one person does and finds something ridiculous, the rest of the Net 
will know in a week (e.g. it gets posted on Slashdot)

> And just before u know it Microsoft owns what u wrote/shared
> with ur friend.

Well, I could suspect they might want a situation like this but I don't
expect them to be stupid enough to actually implement this. They are 
under enough fire as it is I fear.

> >I don't know, it's kind of scary not being able to install software
> >unless it's registered. Then again, the security is client side, in
> >other words: useless!
> Its broken what-ever they do the client can and will be broken.
> Nothing they can do about it.

That's what I ment with 'useless' :)

For the technically challenged: whenever the security is on the client
side it means that users get:

1) the chance to find out how it works
2) the chance to figure out how to work around it without someone who 
   might find out

A good option for online registration is doing it once, sniffing the traffic
if it's possible (e.g. unencrypted) and then set up your own server that listens
to traffic going to "register.microsoft.com" and sending an 'ok' signal back to
the desktop machine from that rogue box. 
Another would be to adjust the program to just totally ignore the check if the 
registration is done (as in: crack it).
The options are endless and no-one will see you try them all or discover
that you're trying before you're done and decide to share the results.

> just think about this 
> If they start "renting" the server on which exists the one and only one
> copy of XP which ppl connect to and use. cracking might be a different thing.
> And I can see this also comming.

Still don't see why I would want to connect to their server. They currently
already rent out their OS if you want (ASP program) which can be a lot cheaper
for companies (e.g. not invest in an OS that will be obsolete in a year or 2
but always have the latest!)

Menso

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