[Reader-list] vedavati thought you would like ........

Jeebesh Bagchi jeebesh at sarai.net
Tue Feb 27 16:49:53 IST 2007 

This debate has a very ambivalent undercurrent.

The ambivalence is around the "assumed critical consensus" of the  
list members.

Most "critical" writing mounts its position or analysis on such a  
consensus . Usually the consensus is guessed or approximated ("anuman  
lagate hain") and we carry on with the work of "critique". But given  
the fractious nature of contemporary intellectual life, consensus is  
much more fragile and breaks down with a little provocation (thus  
deliberate provocations work well as a tactics.)

The problem is how to think about the "zone of breakdown".
(we are surrounded by this point of breakdown and I am sure in our  
love lives we have learnt a few lessons about it :-)

What breaks down? Is there a fear associated with this breakdown?  
What is the nature of this fear?

Responses of exasperation or abuse or rage or moral righteousness or  
a defense of oneself do not address this question. The interesting  
question is how do we listen when faced with this "breakdown"? Do we  
act as if nothing has happened? Or hurriedly act to rectify thinking  
that something (wrong or bad) can happen? Or find a way to think what  
is at stake when faced with the uncertain and nameless terrain opened  
up by the breakdown?

Is it possible to have a free and transparent mode of writing? Isn't  
all writing an attempt to grapple with multiple and contradictory  
impulses, and thus lists can best survive as a mass of chaotic  
utterances, rather than a affirmative and comforting space?

I would think this ambivalence could be seen as productive and  
creative. Was discussing an audio recording of a PR person of a  
security industry with my colleague Iram, and both of us were  
surprised how much of the text of this PR persuasion exercise was  
based of an assumed consensus around security and thus making  
possible the speech act of the PR agent. The PR agent needed our  
fear, our sense of threat, our fascination with technology and our  
surrender to bounded space. (to unpack this is really difficult  
intellectual exercise as we realized over a few days.)

warmly
jeebesh


On 27-Feb-07, at 1:39 PM, Aman Sethi wrote:

> Rahul,
>
> I think (at the risk of mixing my metaphors) that you seem to be  
> missing the woods for the trees while jumping the gun.  While your  
> willingness to engage with whoever you want is entirely your own  
> decision, vedavati's posts don't seem to have much to engage with -  
> they seem to be rather poorly wrought attempts at provocation.   
> Your idea seems more an attempt to show her the error of her ways -  
> something that you are free to do.
>
> What i would like to engage with is something that i have noticed  
> in a huge number of posts on this list - particularly on subjects  
> such as this one - the "pseudo-secularist", "hollow liberal",  
> "supposed intellectual" label that is bandied abt with much  
> freedom.  The idea behind such labels seems to be to prove to  
> people that they arent really who they think they are - but are  
> infact imposters masquerading as "liberals", "secularists", or  
> "intellectuals".  Why?  Why the urge to a) affix a label onto the  
> object of ure ire- and b) to try and tear from them any ideas they  
> might have of themselves - it is indeed a disturbing practice.
>
> Best
> A.
>
> On 2/27/07, Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote: Shuddha,
> For whatever its worth, I dont agree to your divisive
> "us"  and "them" labelling and tactics of promoting
> exclusivity and discouraging dialogue;which is akin to
> what our politicians want so that they have their own
> constituenties of voters who vote on non issues
> Precisely for the   reason that I dont agree with
> Vedavati, I hope she continues posting here and time
> permitting I will try and have a dialogue with her,as
> I have in the past.And your bias is clearly visible
> when you somehow seem to understand Aviks post.
> I personally dont give a damn who said what to
> whom..(people have abused me in the past) but perhaps
> some of you who wear your liberalism and tolerance on
> your sleeve would realise how fake and hollow it is in
> the face of handling Vedavati's posts.
> Regards
> Rahul
> --- Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
>
> > Dear All,
> >
> > Let me clarify at the very beginning that I find the
> > contents of the
> > exchange between Vedavati and Abhit (which we have
> > all been subjected to
> > because of Vedavati's forward, with comment, of
> > Abhik's off list email
> > to her) sad and deplorable. While Abhik's language
> > betrays an
> > unfortunate misogyny, Vedavati's postings and
> > responses are not exactly
> > exemplars of liberality and tolerance.
> >
> > This is not the first time that Vedavati Jogi has
> > posted material on
> > this list that many on this list will find
> > objectionable, just as there
> > are many others on this list who post material that
> > Vedavati, and
> > perhaps some others on this list might have found
> > objectionable. We have
> > had other instances such as this in the past with
> > others as well. The
> > history of a list such as this grows to accommodate
> > all manner of
> > eccentricities, and that is a sign of the health and
> > robustness of a
> > free and open electronic space. It is in the nature
> > of an unmoderated
> > (that is uncensored) list such as this, that some
> > people will use the
> > platform to post material that many of us will
> > consider reprehensible.
> > However, I would suggest that one way to respond to
> > such provocation is
> > also to not necessarily dignify every such
> > provocation with a response.
> >
> > Abhik Samanta has written in his private capacity to
> > Vedavati, and not
> > on the list. So his post (no matter how
> > objectionable and misogynist its
> > content may be, which I think it is, even though I
> > can understand his
> > outrage at Vedavati's clear act of hate speech) is
> > not technically a
> > breach of list etiquette.
> >
> > Vedavati's reply to Abhik which is addressed both to
> > Abhik and to the
> > list is however a clear case of someone dragging
> > what is essentially a
> > private exchange between two people on to the public
> > space of the list.
> > Doing so,without asking for the permission of the
> > concerned persons (and
> > there is no indication that she has asked Abhik) is
> > a clear breach of
> > list eitquette.
> >
> > As a list member, I would advise all other list
> > members (including
> > Vedavati, and Abhik) to try and refrain from blowing
> > this issue out of
> > proportion. I personally find the sentiments that
> > Vedavati is asking us
> > to consider (in the blog whose url she has
> > forwarded) pathetic.
> >
> > I personally think that the real power of
> > Hindutva-vadis lies in their
> > ability to hog public attention. Just ignore what is
> > said by
> > Hindutva-vaids , be amused, at best by the sad level
> > of the arguments
> > and the rhetoric that they put forward, and see how
> > powerful your
> > unwillingness to pay attention to their agenda can
> > be.
> >
> > I hope this puts an end to what might become an
> > otherwise unpleasant
> > distraction on this busy list.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Shuddha
> >
> >
> >
> > Vedavati Jogi wrote:
> > > this shows your level mr. abhik!
> > >
> > > when you people curse hindutv forces especially
> > rss & family, we should not
> > > react
> > > but when we talk about muslim terrorism you can't
> > tolerate moreover you use
> > > such a dirty language ...is it democracy? is it
> > secularism?is it liberalism?
> > >
> > > vedavati
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: "Abhik Samanta" < abhikauliya at googlemail.com>
> > >>To: vedavati <vrjogi at hotmail.com>
> > >>Subject: Re: [Reader-list] vedavati thought you
> > would like "wrap the body
> > >>of muslim terrorist with pig skin"
> > >>Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 00:01:43 +0530
> > >>
> > >>depraved and poor deprived girl   wats the use of
> > wasting time thinkin shit
> > >>dont u have anyone to fuck
> > >>
> > >>On 2/25/07, vedavati <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>vedavati wants you to check out "wrap the body of
> > muslim terrorist with
> > >>>pig skin", the latest post from "Scientific
> > Analysis".
> > >>>
> > >>>Scientific Analysis - Post:
> >
> >>>http://chritianitybreedspoverty.blogsource.com/post.mhtml? 
> post_id=132180&hbx_camp=5
> > >>>
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