[Reader-list] Lists and assaults

[Gargi Sen]

Partha, Pawan,
Partha just so that you know and Pawan just so that you hear, once,
fearlessly: Yasin Malik HAS aplogised. Publicly. At the WSF 2004 in Mumbai.
And many people on this list have repeated that over and over, ad nauseum,
especially Shuddha.

Pawan you choose to ignore an apology by a man and insist on shouting ³but
he has not even said sorry.²
That is a choice you make.

However, each time you lie, someone on this list, equally exhausted as me
with your tireless and endless lying, will summon up the energy to tell you
the truth, once again, over and over. Because your lie is dangerous. You
lies can lead to death. And that is simply not allowed.

Partha, the acronym stands for Aditya, Pawan, Rashneek and Khemendra coined
by someone I have only met on the list ­ M Yousuf, a person whose
nationality and gender is not know but who is nevertheless a comrade. He
called them ARKP. I added the +VD to signify the other half of these five
men: Vedvati and Dhatri.

If you look at the archive you¹ll see the genesis of these silly names and
games. 

But the lies they tell is not just childish or stupid, the lies they tell
are dangerous. 

And so tired, exhausted, we still nail the lies. In the process I think
we¹ve also had a lot of fun. Created games and archetypes. And truly taken
the debate beyond the orbit of ARKP+VD into a space they can¹t reach even in
their dreams, and laughed amongst ourselves even as we wear their insults
with pride: SHIT, toilet cleaner, shady-shadowy (for pseudo-secular) and
turned the scary mobsters into jokes. And that has been the success of this
list.

Gargi happy-to-be-pseudo-secular Sen

 

On 9/15/07 1:49 PM, "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:

> Partha , I have no love for the killers or terrorists. They do NOT deserve it.
> Neither do I serve Justice , but I do CRY for it. Ofcourse I have not pardoned
> Yasin Malik the terrorist , and more ever he has NOT regreted any of his
> killings. Regarding the "Greater Bangla " issue , i have no knowledge as of
> now about it , and hence would not like to comment on that .I am not an expert
> of life on everything or life on mars ....like few of the people here are. God
> Bless Pawan On 9/15/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi
> Pawan, > > He obviously hasn't been pardoned by you. Amongst the many things
> that you > told me, why not tell me one thing more that I asked - why
> shouldn't I cry > out for a 'Greater Bangla' and ignore your's of J&K. > > I
> see the passion and the pain, but I don't see the reason. > > Rgds, Partha > >
> On 9/15/07, Pawan Durani < pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hello Partha
> , > > > > Didn't I tell you that the terrorist has not been pardoned by the
> law , > > unless you chose to ignore that. > > > > > > Pawan > > > > > >  On
> 9/15/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Pawan,
> > > > > > > We go back to the same loop of only looking at a part of a debate,
> out > > > of it's context. > > > > > > Let me get back to where I set off from
> - why don't we start agitating > > > for Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka... >
> > > > > > When do we stop the killing and look after the living? > > > > > >
> You talk of the constitution of India, and then rail at the ones who > > >
> have been pardoned and believed by the same constitution. > > > > > > Just
> because you don't believe is something or someone doesn't mean > > > everyone
> else has to - UNLESS there is a reasoned argument behind that cause > > > -
> and I haven't seen one as yet. > > > > > > Like I've said time and again -
> show me the reason. Else, why > > > shouldn't I drown out your shouts for J&K
> for my call for a 'Greater Bangla' > > > (or whatever else) just because I am
> blinkered to everything else. > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > >
> ......................................... > > > On 9/15/07, Pawan Durani
> <pawan.durani at gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 9/15/07, Partha Dasgupta
> parthaekka at gmail.com > wrote > > > > > > > > >>>>>>You 'ask for a terrorist to
> be brought to justice' forgetting > > > > the path forged by JP in including
> the outsiders and bringing them into > > > > civil society. > > > > Do you
> really want to continue the cycle of hate? An eye for an eye > > > > - is that
> the point so that we go on and on killing. More and more, till the > > > >
> bodies pile up and all that is left is a ravaged landscape. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > > Partha , > > > > We live in a country where the constitution
> exists. general amnesty > > > > to all criminals ,especially terrorists is a
> very dangerous thought. > > > > > > > > We can not go on and start defending
> people for they are *supposed* > > > > to have been reformed [ or become
> political ] . Justice has to be served for > > > > their deeds. These people
> have been source of violence against innconets , > > > > and responsible for
> making a race homeless. > > > > > > > > As the Pope Greogery VII  had once
> said and this may hold true for > > > > me ,"I have loved justice and hated
> inequity; and therefore I die in exile." > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > >
> > Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Dear Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > What you have provoked me
> into thinking about is how far this > > > > > "gimme" attitude will go. As a
> father, I stop my youngest from doing it with > > > > > his elder siblings
> since he's at the age when everything is 'mine'. > > > > > > > > > > Should I
> demand back Bangladesh, since as a Bengali my roots are > > > > > there? > > >
> > > > > > > > Should I demand back Pakistan, where hundreds of thousands of >
> > > > > Indians have there roots? > > > > > > > > > > Should I demand back Sri
> Lanka where Ram made his conquest (and it > > > > > resides in the Indian
> Ocean) > > > > > > > > > > You 'ask for a terrorist to be brought to justice'
> forgetting the > > > > > path forged by JP in including the outsiders and
> bringing them into civil > > > > > society. > > > > > > > > > > Do you really
> want to continue the cycle of hate? An eye for an > > > > > eye - is that the
> point so that we go on and on killing. More and more, till > > > > > the
> bodies pile up and all that is left is a ravaged landscape. > > > > > > > > >
> > Or do we look at what the government has finally figured out - an > > > > >
> 'inclusive' debate wherein concerned parties form a common consensus - which >
> > > > > also cuts down the enforced mortality rate. > > > > > > > > > > Sure,
> I can block you off with spam - but that would allow you to > > > > > write
> whatever you want as I sit silent. The same attitude in Germany that > > > > >
> allowed Hitler to come to power and destroy decades of sensibility and > > > >
> > almost wipe out a tribe. I can't because I have growing children and I hope
> > > > > > that they will emerge into a reasoned society instead of a
> regimented one. > > > > > > > > > > You talk of the homeless because your home
> was taken away. That's > > > > > personal so you care - and forget the pain of
> separation in India or the > > > > > Nandigrams and dams that have caused so
> much pain. > > > > > > > > > > "But the dams are for the greater good" - in
> that case, wouldn't > > > > > letting peace reign in J&K be for the greater
> good? > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure you have 50+ subscribers writing to you
> offline, maybe > > > > > more. Good for you. If they're that proud of you, why
> slide offline and > > > > > write? Keep the debate in the public forum unless
> you're ashamed of your > > > > > views. > > > > > > > > > > When I wrote to
> you about the Yasin Malik post, all I enquired > > > > > about was the reason
> and logic of the debate you wanted to start. Since this > > > > > is not a
> blog or a 'me too' mass mail, the whole point about a post here is > > > > >
> to raise debate. > > > > > > > > > > Till date, though we've reached the level
> of personal denigration, > > > > > we have not had a debate on the central
> issue, and not a single response to > > > > > the questions I asked. > > > > >
> > > > > > That you have a passion for J&K is an undeniable fact. However, > >
> > > > just as I have a passion for Bengal, to present the case to you I must
> base > > > > > my argument in reason and not gung-ho platitudes about heads
> and hearts. > > > > > That's for polticians making a speech for elections -
> while this is a forum > > > > > to discuss and debate viewpoints. > > > > > >
> > > > > If you have a point and a reason, let's talk. If not, why throw up > >
> > > > tons of dust in the air? Sure, it'll obfuscate the issue and drown out >
> > > > > everything else and make me dirty. But you're there too, and you will
> get > > > > > just as dirty. Like every other day I'll take a bath and start
> off again. > > > > > > > > > > If you truly believe that you have a point that
> you can get > > > > > across, then explain it and I will listen. If you stick
> to loud noises then > > > > > I will make more noises so that my children
> hopefully get to see an India > > > > > where reason and love form the core of
> society - not hate and intolerence. > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > >
> > > > > >  On 9/15/07, Pawan Durani < pawan.durani at gmail.com > wrote: > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dear Anamika , > > > > > > > > > > > > That is what I was trying
> to provoke the likes of Suddha , > > > > > > Partha and Zainab > > > > > > to
> think into. > > > > > > > > > > > > When they talk about freedom of expression
> , that means the > > > > > > liberty to > > > > > > portray a terrorist as a
> moderan day Gandhi . > > > > > > > > > > > > And when I express my desire that
> a terrorist has to be bought > > > > > > to justice , > > > > > > they find it
> pushing and then use some unparliamentary words. > > > > > > > > > > > > If my
> expression of resentment for a man who has made me > > > > > > homeless is not
> > > > > > > acceptable in freedom of speech , I wonder what else is ? > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I would continue to drag the issue below or above the belt as
> > > > > > > long as the > > > > > > terrorist is not bought to justice. if
> someone is not interested > > > > > > a button is > > > > > > needed to delete
> the mail or put me on SPAM . That is a gift > > > > > > technology has > > > >
> > > given to us. > > > > > > > > > > > > But if I interest you , you would
> continue to read me. > > > > > > > > > > > > To put on record I have around 50
> + subscribers of readers-list > > > > > > writing to > > > > > > me offline
> and appreciating my concern. > > > > > > > > > > > > Who knows, the way things
> are turning , 20 years down the line > > > > > > your child > > > > > > may be
> writing the same stuff which I write now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pawan > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 14 Sep 2007 23:19:52 -0000, Anamika Bhatnagar
> < > > > > > > bhatnagar_anamika at rediffmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Man...I am seriously irritated by these stupid replies and >
> > > > > > counter replies > > > > > > > ...true...that > > > > > > > freedom
> of speech must be maintained and preserved but > > > > > > these...pawan and >
> > > > > > > company drag > > > > > > > it below the belt...it is so difficult
> to have a constructive > > > > > > argument > > > > > > > with them.. > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 Rana Dasgupta wrote : > > > > > > >
> >Rana Dasgupta wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given the seriousness
> of some of the issues at stake, and > > > > > > the enormous > > > > > > > > >
> gulfs of understanding between some of the contributors, I > > > > > > have to
> say > > > > > > > > > I've admired the restraint of many of the writers on the
> > > > > > > list.  People > > > > > > > > > have held themselves back from
> expressing outright > > > > > > disgust, or from > > > > > > > > > violent
> attacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I take it all back. > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Partha Dasgupta (9811047132) >
> > > > > http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > -- > > > Partha Dasgupta (9811047132) > > >
> http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka > > > > > > > > > > -- > Partha Dasgupta
> (9811047132) > http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka >
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