[Reader-list] Self determination in Kashmir-reply to Vishal

Tue Sep 18 09:46:36 IST 2007

Dear Rahul,

Thanks for responding. This is my personal view that
when it comes to historical wrongs, one cannot simply
'jump' to a solution without a certain process of
acknowledgment of wrongs and forgiveness. A live
example was the Truths Commission in South Africa.
Now, someone might say that that was a case of racism
and therefore it does not apply to our situation. My
disagreement on this is simply that if two decades of
wrongs and violence have been inflicted on Kashmir and
Kashmiris by the Indian army and the government of
India, you cannot say 'forget it, let's talk of
solutions'. It is like the situation in Gujarat where
the Modi government did not acknowledge the wrongs it
had committed and after the violence, 'it was business
as usual'. In this case, the memories of violence and
injustice remain repressed and you never know when
there will be another outburst! What solution are we
then talking about?

Acknowledging wrongs is the first step towards a
solution. Once the Indian government acknowledges what
it has done in Kashmir, it is also sending a message
which says, 'we are willing to listen and talk it out
sincerely and see how best we can resolve the
situation.' I don't think an apology in this case is a
mere stunt. It is a clear political statement.

On the issue of freedom for Kashmir and pragmatism and
romanticism, the point is that for our individual
lives, we decide ideals and struggle to achieve them
despite people around us calling us mad or dreamers.
But when it comes to a people who have clear
justification for wanting independence, what is it
that leads us to say, 'be practical man!'? Why cannot
a community of people demand the ideal? And what is
our fear of accepting that as a standard? Is the fear
that there will be more violence and bloodhsed and
more poets like Aga? If that is the fear, then we are
still going round and round the bush and a solution in
this case (i.e. denying a group of people their right
to aspire for the ideal), we are talking of something
similar to what Rajiv Gandhi did back in the 1980s by
rigging the elections. 

Best,

Zainab

--- Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Rahul,
> 
> What you've said in the past few posts makes
> admirable sense. For a solution
> to work, ALL the stakeholders have to be involved,
> else the left out party
> will remain in a state of denial against the
> agreement.
> 
> And I certainly agree that there's been more than
> enough death and
> suffering, which needs to be stopped.
> 
> Look forward to your detailed mail.
> 
> Rgds, Partha
> ...............
> 
> On 9/18/07, Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Zainab,
> > The reason why I mentioned Pakistan is that I was
> > trying to delineate the stakeholders in the
> valley.
> > I don't hold the view that all resistance to
> > occupation in Kashmir is Pakistan sponsored.I
> agree
> > that there is state sponsored terrorism.
> > I have no comment on stunts like apology.Thats why
> I
> > did not take part in that debate.It does not
> matter to
> > me who apologized to whom or not;and it does not
> > matter to the people who get killed and raped.
> > Now your third point.Please find my reply inline.
> > I don't mean to get into a
> > > philosophical discussion but in my point of
> view,
> > > how
> > > non-pragmatic is it to dream and aspire for the
> > > ideal?
> > > If all of us were to be pragmatic and afraid to
> > > aspire
> > > for the ideal and to dream, would not this world
> be
> > > a
> > > very average/substandard place to live in?
> >
> > Don't you think you are being reductionist
> here?Any
> > idea of pragmatism or romanticism does not exist
> in a
> > vacuum.One doesn't become a romantic just for the
> heck
> > of it.At least I don't.Please,lets not be
> highfalutin
> > about it.Its a matter of people getting killed.If
> your
> > romanticism gives the world one more poet like
> Agha
> > Shahid Ali,whom i greatly admire by the way,and my
> > pragmatism gives me a new generation that can grow
> up
> > in a non-police state;which would you prefer?
> > Lets talk in terms of whats plausible;achievable
> in
> > the short term;isn't 60 years time enough?
> >
> > regards
> > Rahul
> >
> > --- Zainab Bawa <zainabbawa at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Rahul,
> > >
> > > One of the problems in our imagination of 'the
> > > situation' in Kashmir is that we attribute all
> > > violence to Pakistan which is really not the
> whole
> > > picture. The Indian government carries out
> > > state-sponsored terrorism in the Valley. I think
> it
> > > is
> > > important to consider this when we discussion
> 'the
> > > situation' in Kashmir and 'solutions' to 'the
> > > problem'. Just as some people want Yasin Malik
> to
> > > apologize in public for the wrongs he has done,
> I
> > > would want the Indian government to openly
> accept
> > > and
> > > apologize for the historical wrongs and the
> violence
> > > it has perpetrated in the Valley. Without this
> > > acceptance, the thought of any 'solution' is
> > > incomplete and problematic in my line of
> thinking.
> > >
> > > You may choose to disagree with me on this.
> > >
> > > The other thing which has been on my mind ever
> since
> > > my first visit to Kashmir in 2002 is what is
> > > 'pragmatic' or what is 'idealistic' and who
> defines
> > > these lines for Kashmir? I don't mean to get
> into a
> > > philosophical discussion but in my point of
> view,
> > > how
> > > non-pragmatic is it to dream and aspire for the
> > > ideal?
> > > If all of us were to be pragmatic and afraid to
> > > aspire
> > > for the ideal and to dream, would not this world
> be
> > > a
> > > very average/substandard place to live in? I
> would
> > > be
> > > very unhappy living in a world like this!
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Zainab
> > >
> > > On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 23:30:01 +0530, "Vishal
> Rawlley"
> > > <vishal.rawlley at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Dear Rahul,
> > > >
> > > > After you posted your problems with
> > > self-determination in Kashmir, I had
> > > > replied to you (pasted below). I had asked you
> a
> > > question: we now know the
> > > > problems you have pointed out, but we want to
> know
> > > your proposed solution,
> > > > can you post your answer please. Thank you.
> > > >
> > > >>>
> > > > In response to Rahul I had said:
> > > >
> > > > Very well said. You have a right to your own
> > > opinions and have provided
> > > > good
> > > > reasoning for it too. However, it does not
> > > necessarily mean that everyone
> > > > has to agree with you. Other people have a
> right
> > > to
> > > their own viewpoints
> > > > based their own reasoning. Try not to impose
> your
> > > views. If you are
> > > > convinced that your views are superior than
> > > others,
> > > then its their loss
> > > > that
> > > > they do not get your viewpoint. When the day
> comes
> > > to decide the best
> > > > viewpoint you shall undoubtedly win. Meanwhile
> > > keep
> > > refining your
> > > > arguments.
> > > > Do not waste you energy in arguing with those
> who
> > > won't listen.
> > > >
> > > > Many successive Indian governments have tried
> the
> > > policy that you are
> > > > propounding. Somehow it has not been working.
> So
> > > now
> > > what to do? What is
> > > > the
> > > > correct solution? Can you put it down step by
> > > step,
> > > just like you put down
> > > > all the problems point by point?
> > > >
> > > > Now Shuddha and some others proposed their
> > > solution,
> > > which was: withdrawal
> > > > of armed forces form both Kashmirs - under
> Indian
> > > and under Pakistani
> > > > occupation. That should give the Kashmiris the
> > > space
> > > to decide - after
> > > > considering all the problems that you
> mentioned -
> > > whether they want to be
> > > > independent or be with either country
> (entirely or
> 
=== message truncated ===

Zainab Bawa 
Mumbai 

www.xanga.com/citybytes

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