[Reader-list] Self determination in Kashmir-reply to Vishal

[Zainab Bawa]

Dear Pawan,

Your reading and interpretation of history and my
reading and interpretation of history differ and that
is very clear from the discussions that we have had
and seen on this list so far. Thus far, you have not
attempted to see my point of view and I have also not
attempted to see much of your point of view because
the fundamental differences in our ideologies is that
for you, the nation is an important determining force
of your life and you see it as bringing stability and
order whereas for me, the nation cannot determine my
life for me and I see its attempts at bring stability
and order laced with violence in certain situations.
Therefore, I am in no position to enlighten you.

However, I want to take this opportunity to lighten
myself by admitting that I am feeling very
uncomfortable and queasy discussing 'solutions' 'for'
'Kashmir'. I believe that ultimately, their voices are
the legitimate ones and the most I can do is to offer
my support rather than try to speak for them. I think
what also alienates Kashmiris is the attempt on the
part of 'us' 'Indians' to try to speak for them rather
than them speaking for themselves!

Best,

Zainab

P.S. Pawan, you have still not dug out that email for
me. I am still waiting ...




--- Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:

> Zainab,
> 
> Which election did Rajiv Gandhi rig in 1980 ? Plz
> enlighten me !
> 
> Pawan
> 
> 
> On 9/18/07, Zainab Bawa <zainabbawa at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Rahul,
> >
> > Thanks for responding. This is my personal view
> that
> > when it comes to historical wrongs, one cannot
> simply
> > 'jump' to a solution without a certain process of
> > acknowledgment of wrongs and forgiveness. A live
> > example was the Truths Commission in South Africa.
> > Now, someone might say that that was a case of
> racism
> > and therefore it does not apply to our situation.
> My
> > disagreement on this is simply that if two decades
> of
> > wrongs and violence have been inflicted on Kashmir
> and
> > Kashmiris by the Indian army and the government of
> > India, you cannot say 'forget it, let's talk of
> > solutions'. It is like the situation in Gujarat
> where
> > the Modi government did not acknowledge the wrongs
> it
> > had committed and after the violence, 'it was
> business
> > as usual'. In this case, the memories of violence
> and
> > injustice remain repressed and you never know when
> > there will be another outburst! What solution are
> we
> > then talking about?
> >
> > Acknowledging wrongs is the first step towards a
> > solution. Once the Indian government acknowledges
> what
> > it has done in Kashmir, it is also sending a
> message
> > which says, 'we are willing to listen and talk it
> out
> > sincerely and see how best we can resolve the
> > situation.' I don't think an apology in this case
> is a
> > mere stunt. It is a clear political statement.
> >
> > On the issue of freedom for Kashmir and pragmatism
> and
> > romanticism, the point is that for our individual
> > lives, we decide ideals and struggle to achieve
> them
> > despite people around us calling us mad or
> dreamers.
> > But when it comes to a people who have clear
> > justification for wanting independence, what is it
> > that leads us to say, 'be practical man!'? Why
> cannot
> > a community of people demand the ideal? And what
> is
> > our fear of accepting that as a standard? Is the
> fear
> > that there will be more violence and bloodhsed and
> > more poets like Aga? If that is the fear, then we
> are
> > still going round and round the bush and a
> solution in
> > this case (i.e. denying a group of people their
> right
> > to aspire for the ideal), we are talking of
> something
> > similar to what Rajiv Gandhi did back in the 1980s
> by
> > rigging the elections.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Zainab
> >
> >
> > --- Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Rahul,
> > >
> > > What you've said in the past few posts makes
> > > admirable sense. For a solution
> > > to work, ALL the stakeholders have to be
> involved,
> > > else the left out party
> > > will remain in a state of denial against the
> > > agreement.
> > >
> > > And I certainly agree that there's been more
> than
> > > enough death and
> > > suffering, which needs to be stopped.
> > >
> > > Look forward to your detailed mail.
> > >
> > > Rgds, Partha
> > > ...............
> > >
> > > On 9/18/07, Rahul Asthana
> <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Zainab,
> > > > The reason why I mentioned Pakistan is that I
> was
> > > > trying to delineate the stakeholders in the
> > > valley.
> > > > I don't hold the view that all resistance to
> > > > occupation in Kashmir is Pakistan sponsored.I
> > > agree
> > > > that there is state sponsored terrorism.
> > > > I have no comment on stunts like apology.Thats
> why
> > > I
> > > > did not take part in that debate.It does not
> > > matter to
> > > > me who apologized to whom or not;and it does
> not
> > > > matter to the people who get killed and raped.
> > > > Now your third point.Please find my reply
> inline.
> > > > I don't mean to get into a
> > > > > philosophical discussion but in my point of
> > > view,
> > > > > how
> > > > > non-pragmatic is it to dream and aspire for
> the
> > > > > ideal?
> > > > > If all of us were to be pragmatic and afraid
> to
> > > > > aspire
> > > > > for the ideal and to dream, would not this
> world
> > > be
> > > > > a
> > > > > very average/substandard place to live in?
> > > >
> > > > Don't you think you are being reductionist
> > > here?Any
> > > > idea of pragmatism or romanticism does not
> exist
> > > in a
> > > > vacuum.One doesn't become a romantic just for
> the
> > > heck
> > > > of it.At least I don't.Please,lets not be
> > > highfalutin
> > > > about it.Its a matter of people getting
> killed.If
> > > your
> > > > romanticism gives the world one more poet like
> > > Agha
> > > > Shahid Ali,whom i greatly admire by the
> way,and my
> > > > pragmatism gives me a new generation that can
> grow
> > > up
> > > > in a non-police state;which would you prefer?
> > > > Lets talk in terms of whats
> plausible;achievable
> > > in
> > > > the short term;isn't 60 years time enough?
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > > Rahul
> > > >
> > > > --- Zainab Bawa <zainabbawa at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dear Rahul,
> > > > >
> > > > > One of the problems in our imagination of
> 'the
> > > > > situation' in Kashmir is that we attribute
> all
> > > > > violence to Pakistan which is really not the
> > > whole
> > > > > picture. The Indian government carries out
> > > > > state-sponsored terrorism in the Valley. I
> think
> > > it
> > > > > is
> > > > > important to consider this when we
> discussion
> > > 'the
> > > > > situation' in Kashmir and 'solutions' to
> 'the
> > > > > problem'. Just as some people want Yasin
> Malik
> > > to
> 
=== message truncated ===


Zainab Bawa 
Mumbai 

www.xanga.com/citybytes



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433