[Reader-list] sedition vs. criticism

[Kshmendra Kaul]

Dear Baruk
 
1. From the Wikipedia page alone,  I would find it difficult to reach your kind of generalisation that "Historically it seems most seditions laws have been used by governments to silence critics". It may be true though.
 
2. History of a Law being bad or being badly interpreted or having been abused does not mean that such a Law should not exist. It only means that we should learn from the "History" of such a Law, to try our best to design it well and make it insulated from being abused.
 
3. If it is your postion that there should be an open season for citizens of a country to indulge in 'sedition' then you and I differ on that.
 
4. At least in a Democracy, the Government does not make "Laws". We the people make the Law by through our representatives in the Legislatures where the Laws are made.
 
The Govt only applies the Law. The nature of application/interpretation of the Law by the Government is open to challenge.
 
5. What you have called the "modern meaning" is wording (possibly from a Sedition Law) Wikipedia says is from the Elizabethean Era (circa 1590). Year 1590 is a rather convoluted recognition of "modern". Even so, any Law is only as good or bad or loose and open to abuse as it figures today in any country and particular to that country only.
 
6. Wikipedia has commented extensively on "sedition" even though all that you could see, from some strange reason is a quote of  a definition from around 1590:
 
-  Sedition is a term of law which refers to covert conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel.
 
7. There are other critical sentences:
 
-  Because sedition is typically considered a subversive act, the overt acts that may be prosecutable under sedition laws vary from one legal code to another. Where those legal codes have a traceable history, there is also a record of the change of definition for what constituted sedition at certain points in history. This overview has served to develop a sociological definition of sedition as well, within study of persecution.
 
(do not miss reference to change of definitions at different points of history for what constitutes sedition and consequent overviews to protect against persecution)
 
-  Nor does it consist, in most representative democracies, of peaceful protest against a government, nor of attempting to change the government by democratic means (such as direct democracy or constitutional convention).
 
 
8. If you continue to see no difference between "sedition" and "criticism" then I cannot be of any further help.
 
 
Kshmendra
  

--- On Sun, 8/24/08, Baruk S. Jacob <b_a_r_u_k at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Baruk S. Jacob <b_a_r_u_k at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] sedition vs. criticism
To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Sunday, August 24, 2008, 4:09 PM

Well, Kshmendra, 

Historically it seems most seditions laws (a list in the Wiki article you
quote) have been used by governments to silence critics. In fact, "notion
of inciting by words or writings disaffection towards the state or constituted
authority" is what the 'modern definition' is supposed to be!

Not so sure the two are, at least in the context we are using it, very
different!

~Baruk

http://bottlebroke.blogspot.com


--- On Sun, 8/24/08, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] sedition vs. criticism
> To: b_a_r_u_k at yahoo.com
> Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Sunday, August 24, 2008, 3:54 PM
> Dear Baruk
>  
> Any dictionary would tell you the meanings of the two words
> and you would then be able to differentiate between the two.
>  
> Wikipedia also has them listed:
>  
> - For "sedition"
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition
>  
> - For "criticism"
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism
>  
> I hope the weblinks help in explaining the difference.
>  
> Kshmendra
>  
>  
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 8/24/08, Baruk S. Jacob
> <b_a_r_u_k at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> From: Baruk S. Jacob <b_a_r_u_k at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] sedition vs. criticism
> To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Date: Sunday, August 24, 2008, 3:21 PM
> 
>  "The difference between 'criticism' and
> 'sedition' is
> easily recognisable." (Kshemendra Kaul)
> 
> ...and what IS the dividing line?
> 
> ~baruk
> 
> 
>       
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