[Reader-list] [Reader-List] Amarnath Yatra

[Kshmendra Kaul]

Dear Shuddha
 
An interesting debate. It would be sad if it went the direction of "if not you and not your father, then it was your grandfather who sullied the water I am drinking".
 
Having, I think, a fair idea of your 'philosophy' in such matters, I found the comment somewhat out-of-place. Your response makes clear your attitude.
 
Connected thought - the problem with most discussions on Kashmir (and such issues) is in opposing sides of an argument using different 'point of time in the past' as reference points to specify 'that is when the problem started' and then around that weave arguments about what happened 'thereafter'. When the 'absolute' reference point in time differs, it is highly unlikely that there will be common areas of agreement or even understanding.
 
In the case of Kashmir perhaps 1947 should be that 'absolute' reference point in time. What happened before 1947 can at best be 'backgrounders' for the 1947 crossover. If the 'backgrounders' become a part of the 'main body' of arguments, then any discussion will ultimately only be a slanging match. Not you? Then it was your forefathers.
 
That is why the reigns of Rajas and Maharajahs and Badshahs and Sultans and their 'doings' need to be avoided in a discussion on Kashmir. They 'owned' terriotory. They 'owned' the people. They bought and sold not only territory and protection for territory but also the people.  That is how the world was. That is how the world still is in many of it's parts. Protesting the 'now' is legitimate in my opinion. Protesting the 'past' is foolish in my opinion.
 
Thats it for now. 
 
Kshmendra 
 

--- On Tue, 7/1/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:

From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] [Reader-List] Amarnath Yatra
To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 5:39 PM

Dear Kshemendra,

Thank you for your considered comment, and the opportunity it gives  
me for a clarification. if you are implying that the 'land grab' in  
Kashmir began before the advent of Dogra Rule, then you are  
absolutely right, and I am in agreement with you. All Kings and  
monarchs (no matter of what faith or dynasty) are land-grabbers who  
dignify themselves with royal titles. They claim an authority on  
land, based on the pure fact of their monopoly over the means of  
violence.

I have said this before, I have no brief, either to defend or to  
oppose, the actions of any king, anywhere, least of all, in Kashmir,  
on the basis of their faith. As far as I am concerned, all rulers and  
monarchs, represent autocratic principles of rule, that I have no  
reason to uphold or defend. This goes for Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist,  
Sikh, Christian, Jewish or Agnostic or Pagan Kings. I am absolutely  
certain that the Muslim kings of Kashmir, with some significant  
exceptions unleashed oppression and violence on the people of  
Kashmir. In this, they were no different, from the non-Muslim kings  
who came before them, or after them. My prejudices, in this specific  
instance, are against Kings and Kingship, not against the faiths that  
the Kings claim to uphold. Hence, I hope you will now agree that by  
saying this I have not in fact taken the debate into 'communal'  
territory.

best

Shuddha





On 01-Jul-08, at 3:00 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote:
Dear Shuddha


By linking the current day happenings with the Dogra Rule (be as it  
may have been in the context of 'land grants') you have crossed the  
1947 Rubicon.


What would stop anyone in going further back in time and bring in the  
excesses of the preceding ruling dynasties of various other faiths?


You yourself have now taken the debate into 'communal' territory.


Kshmendra Kaul

Shuddhabrata Sengupta
The Sarai Programme at CSDS
Raqs Media Collective
shuddha at sarai.net
www.sarai.net
www.raqsmediacollective.net


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