[Reader-list] About Accusations on this List

Tapas Ray tapasrayx at gmail.com
Mon Nov 10 23:13:40 IST 2008 

Count me in.


2008/11/10 Fatima फ़ातिमा <fatimaschool45 at gmail.com>:
> Dear Sarai Moderator,
>
> While I respect and sympathize with the cause of Kashmiri pandits (as
> much as I cry for the plight of Kashmiri Muslims), I would love to see
> a healthier Sarai list with more respect, tolerance, and patience from
> every one. I fully support freedom of expression, but I have no room
> for any kind of personal attacks and insults.
>
> I support the removal of these people who were asked to provide a
> proof of their accusations but have failed to do so.
>
> regrds
>
> Fatima
>
>
> On 11/10/08, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Lal Salaam Aarti,
>>
>> You have different criteria to be part of this group , even if you write
>> just *anything*.
>>
>> Why should Shuddha be absolved of defamation of groups which are the only
>> voice of Kashmiri Hindus.
>>
>> I still believe that people do write surrogately for somebodys cause and for
>> a situation like Kashmir , various groups or agencies within and outside
>> India would have their support structures.
>>
>> if you dont believe that these group exist , you live in some other world.
>> And if Shuddha has taken this statement to himslef , it is his problem.
>>
>> I see that these groups are a block for Shuddhas ideology.
>>
>> Pawan
>> PS.... Simple one liners are best suited offline. That is again a basic
>> group mailing rule. Had i been rude or whatever in my offline , you would
>> have been right to object.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/10/08, Aarti Sethi <aarti.sethi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Lal Salaam Pawan, no I am not. But nor are you. But then there are things
>>> I
>>> am not - such as a liar- which cannot be said for you. Also I am not going
>>> to be expelled from the list for defaming people. Nor can this be said
>>> about
>>> you. So I guess the similarity between us ends there huh?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Pawan Durani
>>> <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> lal Salaam,,
>>>>
>>>> Arti,
>>>>
>>>> Are u a moderator ?
>>>>
>>>> pawan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  On 11/10/08, Aarti Sethi <aarti.sethi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've heard of wolves in sheep's clothing, but this is my first encounter
>>>>> with sheep in wolves clothing!! Wonders of wonders, when finally our
>>>>> fire-breathing warriors are called out on their lies, they have nothing
>>>>> but
>>>>> bleats to offer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pawan, again. This has nothing to do with democracy or your ideology. If
>>>>> we wanted you expelled because of your ideaology, we would have demanded
>>>>> it
>>>>> long ago. I have never demanded it, nor has Shuddha. In fact on separate
>>>>> occasions I have *defended* your right to speak. And why is Shuddha not
>>>>> asking that Dhatri or Chanchal be expelled? We abhor their ideaology as
>>>>> well.
>>>>>
>>>>> So trying to play the victim this time is not going to work my friend.
>>>>> The game is up. You made certain statements, you defamed people, you put
>>>>> question marks on their credibility. Credibility and ideaology are not
>>>>> the
>>>>> same thing. Now you have to put your money (or Yaseen Malik's money)
>>>>> where
>>>>> your mouth (or Shuddha's mouth) is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Prove it, or leave. Its simple. And before you make baseless allegations
>>>>> against people the next time, look back at this experience and ask
>>>>> yourself
>>>>> whether it might be better in your life to use arguments and facts,
>>>>> rather
>>>>> than lies and abuse, as your currency of choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Warm regards
>>>>> (as it seems for the last time)
>>>>>
>>>>> Aarti
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S Please don't write to me off-list again. I do not wish to have any
>>>>> private communications with you at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Pawan Durani
>>>>> <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lastly,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My expulsion from the group is demanded by people of certain ideology
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> I can understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The expuslion is demanded by members and not from the moderator. I have
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> right of either replying or ignoring mails or questions to me by any
>>>>>> member.
>>>>>> So do not remind me of any clock. [ BTW is that clock set to IST or ??
>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even i have demanded the expulsion of few.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the moderator wishes to remove me , so be it . I will not contest
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> judgement of the Moderator. I myslef runa group which is more than
>>>>>> double
>>>>>> the size of SARAI mailing list. I myself try to see the group moving in
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> ideology.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So if the moderator believes that I need to be removed , I can
>>>>>> understand
>>>>>> that I am a hurdle in certain ideology and this group does not believe
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> either democracy or secularism. So let the moderator decide ........If
>>>>>> i
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> really a hurdle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But remember ......when red fades .....it becomes saffron.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pawan Durani
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Kirdar,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > What makes Shuddha write anything bad about Panun Kashmir . What
>>>>>> > makes
>>>>>> him
>>>>>> > think that someone whom he doesnt like belong to Panun Kashmir.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > To the best of my knowledge , no Panun Kashmir member is a part of
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> > group.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Is he not guilty of 'defamation' if he considers me as being one.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I wont mind walking out ......arm in arm with Godhra.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > And about Surrogates.........Let anyone deny that surroagates dont
>>>>>> > exist........and what would make you believe that this list doesnt
>>>>>> have one.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Pawan
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >  On 11/10/08, Kirdar <kirdarsingh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Dear Pawan
>>>>>> >> If you read my earlier mails on this subject, I have said again and
>>>>>> >> again that no one is mocking the plight of displaced Kashmiri
>>>>>> >> pundits
>>>>>> >> on this list (can you quote one, only one mail which makes fun of
>>>>>> >> Kashmiri pundit's suffering?). Any right thinking person would
>>>>>> >> sympathize with your cause. But you have killed your own cause by
>>>>>> >> hitting at people who have nothing to do with your suffering.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> No body supports "Islamic" extremism here. They do raise concerns
>>>>>> >> about innocent citizens being hounded in the name of "war on terror"
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> >> but tell me, what is wrong with that? Is it a crime to raise
>>>>>> >> concerns
>>>>>> >> about the plight of Indian Muslims for instance? If some Kashmiri
>>>>>> >> Muslims have driven you out of Kashmir, does it mean that all
>>>>>> >> Muslims
>>>>>> >> are responsible and punishable for that? This is the impression that
>>>>>> >> your posts seems to be giving. And I think the people here are
>>>>>> >> simply
>>>>>> >> trying to reduce your misunderstandings. Why should anyone be happy
>>>>>> >> about the plight of KPs.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> You are again coming back to "Chinese ideology" and "surrogates" and
>>>>>> >> so on. But you haven't shown a single proof yet. Come on... the
>>>>>> >> clock
>>>>>> >> is ticking.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Kirdar
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Pawan Durani <
>>>>>> pawan.durani at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>> >> > Dear Kirdar,
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > I am not answerable to Shuddhas of this world. I know where they
>>>>>> come
>>>>>> >> from .
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > 1. If I say that we are fighting a proxy war against the
>>>>>> >> > supporters
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> >> > separatists , does it implicate Shuddha of being one
>>>>>> >> > ,.......unless
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> >> > considers himself one.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > 2. If Ray can write that he is investigating those who spitted on
>>>>>> >> Geelani
>>>>>> >> > and suspect that the person is from SARAI group, so can even i
>>>>>> write
>>>>>> >> that
>>>>>> >> > the credentials of certain people on the list are being
>>>>>> >> investigated.What
>>>>>> >> > makes the two different ?
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > 3. If I say that certain journalists are on the account roll of
>>>>>> certain
>>>>>> >> > organisations or foreign country , thats a hard fact and it
>>>>>> >> > happens
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> >> all
>>>>>> >> > countries. Why does it pain Shuddha if I havent named him, unless
>>>>>> he co
>>>>>> >> > -relates it to himslef . Well, this group has hundreds of members
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >> non
>>>>>> >> > except couple or more get embarrassed. Why ?
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > 4. Well , isnt Kashmir a Proxy war place ? Arent there surrogates
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> >> > everywhere ? Would anyone deny that ? In Kashmir I dont trust
>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>> >> > .....and i see many surrogates in even Delhi. There may be few on
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> >> list
>>>>>> >> > as well. Can anyone deny that ? I see many acts which are
>>>>>> >> > surrogate
>>>>>> >> .....
>>>>>> >> > Why does anyone want me change my opinion. Unless someone does see
>>>>>> >> himself
>>>>>> >> > as a surrogate with active participation.....
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > 5. If someone can write to me about being from RSS , MNS , Shiv
>>>>>> Sena ,
>>>>>> >> Panun
>>>>>> >> > Kashmir or Roots In Kashmir , so be it. Not that i find anything
>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>> >> with
>>>>>> >> > that , i personally have a lot of respect for these organisations.
>>>>>> >> However i
>>>>>> >> > have friends in all these organisations and even though i am one
>>>>>> >> > of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >> > founder and visualiser of roots in kashmir , I no longer am its
>>>>>> member
>>>>>> >> as we
>>>>>> >> > believe it has to belong to youths. At times they come to me for
>>>>>> advise.
>>>>>> >> But
>>>>>> >> > i dont need to get embarrassed for getting associated with anyone
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> >> these.
>>>>>> >> > These organisations are patriotic and fight for a cause against
>>>>>> >> > all
>>>>>> >> odds.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > Who can deny that Roots In Kashmir and Panun Kashmir are the two
>>>>>> >> > organisations who have talked and spread the cause of Kashmiri
>>>>>> pandits
>>>>>> >> world
>>>>>> >> > across. Why does Shuddha always target these two. is it not to
>>>>>> scuttle
>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>> >> > voice of Kashmiri pandits. Do I see a pattern here for no reasons
>>>>>> >> > ?
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > And who can deny that there are leftists who get mesmerised with
>>>>>> Chinese
>>>>>> >> > ideology. C'mon accept it . Shuddha may or may not ......but why
>>>>>> does it
>>>>>> >> > effect him only when i write about it , unless he considers
>>>>>> >> > himself
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> >> > supporter of that ?
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > I do see a pattern , planned one here. The way to celebrate
>>>>>> >> > freedom
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> >> to
>>>>>> >> > scusttle voice of the Kashmiri pandits , the community which has
>>>>>> >> undergone
>>>>>> >> > Exodus and genocide.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > I love to fight a battle on foreign turf , that is why I am here.
>>>>>> >> > I
>>>>>> >> myself
>>>>>> >> > run a group which is much bigger than SARAI .I know what to word
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >> what
>>>>>> >> > not to word.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > If I have to be removed , please do ....i do not and will not
>>>>>> challenge
>>>>>> >> a
>>>>>> >> > moderator. But then Justice have to be balanced. So should Shuddha
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >> > others be removed.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > I know the moderators of this group do read each word carefully ,
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> >> they do
>>>>>> >> > know what and how Shuddha write and manipulate !
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > I volunteer myslef to be removed , but i  company of Shuddha.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > Regards
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > Pawan Durani
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > jai Andhra , Jai Hindustan
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > On 11/10/08, Kirdar <kirdarsingh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> Dear Pawan
>>>>>> >> >> You should read Shuddha's mail carefully. He has raised a
>>>>>> >> >> specific
>>>>>> >> >> issue of your accusing him and others of being "paid agents of
>>>>>> foreign
>>>>>> >> >> powers" and so on. He has asked you to furnish proofs to support
>>>>>> such
>>>>>> >> >> an accusation, for which you have been given a day to respond. I
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> >> >> this time he sounds rather serious - the clock is ticking - half
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> >> >> day is already gone. Please substantiate your accusations or you
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> >> >> gone.
>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> I had also asked all of you many times to come to the point
>>>>>> >> >> rather
>>>>>> >> >> than accusing the others - but my message had no effect on you. I
>>>>>> >> >> would suggest that if you cannot provide the required proof,
>>>>>> please
>>>>>> >> >> take your words back and apologize everyone for the accusations
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> >> >> made. Promise to never indulge in sullying others on this list.
>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>> >> >> your expulsion can be revoked. I know I am sounding like a school
>>>>>> >> >> master, but maybe that's the only hope for you.
>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> Kirdar
>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 10:28 AM, Pawan Durani <
>>>>>> pawan.durani at gmail.com
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>>>> >> >> > Dear All,
>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> > For those who have championed "how we celebrate Freedom,remain
>>>>>> >> exposed.
>>>>>> >> >> > The
>>>>>> >> >> > freedom of others to express their thoughts.
>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> > How come Shuddha forgets how he has himsef accused others like
>>>>>> me ,
>>>>>> >> >> > Aditya ,
>>>>>> >> >> > roots in Kashmir , Panun Kashmir , BJP and RSS etc etc.
>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> > His talk on Kashmir , accusations against Roots in Kashmir are
>>>>>> >> nothing
>>>>>> >> >> > but
>>>>>> >> >> > figment of his own imagination.
>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> > If I have to be removed from the list , so would Shuddha ,
>>>>>> >> >> > Inder
>>>>>> ,
>>>>>> >> >> > Shivam
>>>>>> >> >> > and Arti have to be.
>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> > Let the Moderators remove all , if that is what is required.
>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> > Pawan
>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> > On 11/9/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>  Dear All,
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> I have noticed a curious and remarkable phenomenon of late on
>>>>>> our
>>>>>> >> list,
>>>>>> >> >> >> and
>>>>>> >> >> >> am wondering whether or not any of you have noticed it too.
>>>>>> >> >> >> Unfortunately it
>>>>>> >> >> >> is not without precedent.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> We know well by now that when those who speak for 'Panun
>>>>>> Kashmir'
>>>>>> >> and
>>>>>> >> >> >> 'Roots in Kashmir' run out of arguments, especially when faced
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> >> >> >> detailed
>>>>>> >> >> >> and cross referenced material that does not support their
>>>>>> 'case',
>>>>>> >> >> >> habitually
>>>>>> >> >> >> retort with abuse, invective and insinuation. They express
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> >> >> >> desires to
>>>>>> >> >> >> 'spit' on people's faces, exactly as their ABVP / Sri Ram Sena
>>>>>>  goon
>>>>>> >> >> >> allies
>>>>>> >> >> >> spit on the faces of university lecturers invited to speak at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >> >> >> university.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Of late, there has been another kind of 'spitting' going on in
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> >> >> >> list,
>>>>>> >> >> >> and in the online communications emanating from individuals
>>>>>> >> associated
>>>>>> >> >> >> with
>>>>>> >> >> >> 'Panun Kashmir' and 'Roots in Kashmir'.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>  I am speaking about a curious pattern of a specific kind of
>>>>>> >> >> >> insinuations
>>>>>> >> >> >> emanating mainly from Pawan Durani (but also of late from
>>>>>> Aditya Raj
>>>>>> >> >> >> Kaul)
>>>>>> >> >> >> that suggest that whosoever does not agree with the PK/RIK
>>>>>> gospel or
>>>>>> >> >> >> the
>>>>>> >> >> >> broad hardline Indian nationalist position on anything must be
>>>>>> doing
>>>>>> >> so
>>>>>> >> >> >> because they are actively doing the bidding of their 'foreign
>>>>>> >> masters'
>>>>>> >> >> >> and
>>>>>> >> >> >> further, because they are being 'paid' to do so. Since their
>>>>>> ethical
>>>>>> >> >> >> horizons are severely limited and compromised, the makers of
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> >> >> >> accusations cannot imagine that some of us take a principled
>>>>>> >> position
>>>>>> >> >> >> against the things that they hold sacrosant. And so, failing
>>>>>> >> >> >> to
>>>>>> >> account
>>>>>> >> >> >> for
>>>>>> >> >> >> the ethical basis of our opposition, they leap to accuse us of
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> >> >> >> adversarial purely for the sake of private and pecuniary gain.
>>>>>> So,
>>>>>> >> >> >> 'writers'
>>>>>> >> >> >> and journalists are paid by their terrorist masters, I am a
>>>>>> paid
>>>>>> >> agent,
>>>>>> >> >> >> Sanjay Kak was paid by Yasin Malik (this is a charge that was
>>>>>> made
>>>>>> >> when
>>>>>> >> >> >> the
>>>>>> >> >> >> debate on Jashn-e-Azadi began) and Prakash Ray is 'Sanjay
>>>>>> >> >> >> Kak's
>>>>>> >> >> >> propoganda
>>>>>> >> >> >> agent on the payroll of Yasin Malik' , and so on.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> This allegation that ones critics are ones critics because
>>>>>> >> >> >> they
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> >> >> >> being
>>>>>> >> >> >> paid to be critics and that too by devious foreign powers or
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> >> >> >> local
>>>>>> >> >> >> clients is the time tested 'foreign hand' and 'agent of the
>>>>>> foreign
>>>>>> >> >> >> hand'
>>>>>> >> >> >> theory that is the Brahmastra (secret lethal weapon) that
>>>>>> Indian
>>>>>> >> >> >> politicians
>>>>>> >> >> >> (and not only Indian politicians) resort to when all else
>>>>>> fails. It
>>>>>> >> is
>>>>>> >> >> >> the
>>>>>> >> >> >> true hallmark of a failure of reason, a profound disconnect
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> >> >> >> reality and
>>>>>> >> >> >> dismal poverty of the political imagination. It attempts to
>>>>>> hide but
>>>>>> >> >> >> fails
>>>>>> >> >> >> to conceal a rancid, rabid, raucous politics.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Of course, as is evident from the emails forwarded by Sonia
>>>>>> Jabbar
>>>>>> >> on
>>>>>> >> >> >> to
>>>>>> >> >> >> the list recently, some of the illustrious company that Mr.
>>>>>> Durani
>>>>>> >> >> >> keeps,
>>>>>> >> >> >> such as the gentleman known as Ashish Zutshi, another 'Roots
>>>>>> >> >> >> in
>>>>>> >> >> >> Kashmir'
>>>>>> >> >> >> luminary, himself offered her a 'reasonable sum of money' to
>>>>>> write
>>>>>> >> for
>>>>>> >> >> >> their
>>>>>> >> >> >> cause. Perhaps the sleazy language of bribery is the only one
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> >> >> >> these
>>>>>> >> >> >> gentlemen understand, because at least in this case, they seem
>>>>>> to be
>>>>>> >> >> >> doing
>>>>>> >> >> >> precisely what (offering a bribe) that they accuse us of being
>>>>>> >> beholden
>>>>>> >> >> >> to.
>>>>>> >> >> >> Rather, this is a case of one kind of influence peddlers
>>>>>> admitting
>>>>>> >> to
>>>>>> >> >> >> the
>>>>>> >> >> >> fact that they lament not having their current adversaries as
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> >> own
>>>>>> >> >> >> 'paid agents'. Why else would they offer to pay someone who
>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>> >> >> >> agree
>>>>>> >> >> >> with them a 'reasonable amount' to change her mind.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> In the last two weeks there have been several specific
>>>>>> occasions
>>>>>> >> when
>>>>>> >> >> >> either I, or someone broadly willing to question the PK/RIK
>>>>>> hard
>>>>>> >> line
>>>>>> >> >> >> nationalist gospel has been called a paid 'agent'. Further,
>>>>>> Aarti
>>>>>> >> has
>>>>>> >> >> >> been
>>>>>> >> >> >> accused of selling herself 'cheaply' and Sanjay Kak has been
>>>>>> accused
>>>>>> >> of
>>>>>> >> >> >> taking money from Yasin Malik. And there have also been two
>>>>>> specific
>>>>>> >> >> >> occasions when people (Aman and me, by implication) have been
>>>>>> called
>>>>>> >> >> >> 'puppets of the Chinese'.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Now this is something that I take quite seriously. I do not
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> >> this
>>>>>> >> >> >> casually, as I do not think that these accusations are made
>>>>>> casually
>>>>>> >> >> >> either.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> The allegations suggest, basically, that some of us are
>>>>>> >> >> >> writing
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> >> we
>>>>>> >> >> >> are
>>>>>> >> >> >> writing on this list because some 'foreign power'  or
>>>>>> 'terrorist' is
>>>>>> >> >> >> greasing our palms. Since I am included in this list, I am
>>>>>> willing
>>>>>> >> to
>>>>>> >> >> >> take
>>>>>> >> >> >> on this matter personally. Notwithstanding the fact that my
>>>>>> bank
>>>>>> >> >> >> accounts
>>>>>> >> >> >> suggest otherwise, I am insulted to know that Pawan Durani
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> >> think
>>>>>> >> >> >> that
>>>>>> >> >> >> my political convictions and reflections are available for
>>>>>> purchase
>>>>>> >> at
>>>>>> >> >> >> such
>>>>>> >> >> >> low rates in the market, or, more fundamentally, that I am a
>>>>>> hired
>>>>>> >> hack
>>>>>> >> >> >> who
>>>>>> >> >> >> writes not out of conviction but  for the sake of crumbs and
>>>>>> >> leavings
>>>>>> >> >> >> from
>>>>>> >> >> >> my 'masters' table. The Reader List is a space of freedom. No
>>>>>> one is
>>>>>> >> >> >> paid by
>>>>>> >> >> >> the hosts  or the administrator of the list to write anything.
>>>>>> No
>>>>>> >> >> >> payments
>>>>>> >> >> >> are sought from the hosts or administrator for any kind of
>>>>>> writing
>>>>>> >> >> >> either.
>>>>>> >> >> >> My professional responsibilities at Sarai do not include
>>>>>> writing on
>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>> >> >> >> Reader List either.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> I consider this an insult to the community of the reader list,
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>> >> >> >> Sarai
>>>>>> >> >> >> programme at CSDS and a serious affront to my reputation and
>>>>>> >> >> >> my
>>>>>> >> >> >> professional
>>>>>> >> >> >> standing. I do not wish to ignore this or take it lightly,
>>>>>> >> especially
>>>>>> >> >> >> as
>>>>>> >> >> >> this has been made on a very public forum. I may have been
>>>>>> willing
>>>>>> >> to
>>>>>> >> >> >> ignore
>>>>>> >> >> >> the odd barb of this nature (and it is not that it has not
>>>>>> >> >> >> been
>>>>>> >> thrown
>>>>>> >> >> >> in
>>>>>> >> >> >> the past) but when we get seven defamatory missives in two
>>>>>> weeks,
>>>>>> >> then
>>>>>> >> >> >> we
>>>>>> >> >> >> are looking at a serious and determined pattern that I do not
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> >> >> >> deserves
>>>>>> >> >> >> to be ignored or overlooked.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Let's look at each one of these instances. I have tagged each
>>>>>> quote
>>>>>> >> >> >> with
>>>>>> >> >> >> the subject header and the date of the posting from which it
>>>>>> >> >> >> is
>>>>>> >> taken,
>>>>>> >> >> >> so
>>>>>> >> >> >> that they can be traced easily by all list members. My
>>>>>> >> >> >> comments
>>>>>> >> follow
>>>>>> >> >> >> each
>>>>>> >> >> >> quotation. Certain portions within each quotation have been
>>>>>> >> capitalized
>>>>>> >> >> >> for
>>>>>> >> >> >> reasons of emphasis (mine).
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> --------------------------
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> 1.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Re: [Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Date: 21 October 2008 6:21:56 PM GMT+05:30
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> (from Pawan Durani)
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> "...Notwithsatnding a well CALCULATED EFFORT BACKED BY A
>>>>>> FOREIGN
>>>>>> >> >> >> COUNTRY ,
>>>>>> >> >> >> so called intellectuals and so called jornalists who created a
>>>>>> >> >> >> disinformation campaign, such as in Jamia Encounter ,
>>>>>> Parlaiment
>>>>>> >> case
>>>>>> >> >> >> are
>>>>>> >> >> >> being followed more closely.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Number of people are supposed to be under close scanner and
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> >> links
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> ascertained. Hoping the truth and the DETAILS PAYOUTS will
>>>>>> >> >> >> come
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> >> >> >> soon..."
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: Pawan Durani claims to know the following -
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> (a) that those raising questions about the Jamia Encounter and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >> >> >> Parliament Attack case are party to a 'well calculated effort
>>>>>> backed
>>>>>> >> by
>>>>>> >> >> >> a
>>>>>> >> >> >> foreign country'
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> (b) that they are 'under a close scanner', their 'links are
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> >> >> >> ascertained'
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> (c) that the 'details' of 'payouts' will come out soon...
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> In all fairness, either he should furnish the list with
>>>>>> >> >> >> details
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> >> how
>>>>>> >> >> >> he
>>>>>> >> >> >> can substantiate (a - which foreign country?), (b) & (c)
>>>>>> >> >> >> above,
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> >> >> >> stand
>>>>>> >> >> >> charged of making baseless allegations designed to malign the
>>>>>> >> character
>>>>>> >> >> >> and
>>>>>> >> >> >> reputation of people in a public forum.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> In the event that he cannot prove (a), (b) & (c) I would like
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >> know
>>>>>> >> >> >> whether or not list members believe that this alone ought not
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >> count
>>>>>> >> >> >> as
>>>>>> >> >> >> sufficient reason for his expulsion from the list ?
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> 2.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Re: [Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Date: 25 October 2008 3:53:21 PM GMT+05:30
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> (from Pawan Durani)
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> "...I know I am not a master of mixing words NOR IS THIS A
>>>>>> >> >> >> FULL
>>>>>> TIME
>>>>>> >> >> >> JOB
>>>>>> >> >> >> FOR ME  FOR WHICH I GET PAID FOR..." (sic)
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: This is specifically addressed to me. Since I am
>>>>>> neither
>>>>>> >> >> >> employed nor monetarily compensated to write posts on the
>>>>>> Reader
>>>>>> >> List
>>>>>> >> >> >> on any
>>>>>> >> >> >> subject whatsoever, and do so entierly of my own free will, I
>>>>>> want
>>>>>> >> to
>>>>>> >> >> >> know
>>>>>> >> >> >> what Pawan Durani means when he implies that writing on the
>>>>>> Reader
>>>>>> >> List
>>>>>> >> >> >> is a
>>>>>> >> >> >> 'full time job for which I get paid'. Again, if he cannot
>>>>>> >> substantiate
>>>>>> >> >> >> this,
>>>>>> >> >> >> it will amount to defamation because it will imply that I say
>>>>>> what I
>>>>>> >> >> >> do, or
>>>>>> >> >> >> have the political convictions that I have because I am paid
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> >> this.
>>>>>> >> >> >> In
>>>>>> >> >> >> other words, that I am a 'mercenary'. If he cannot
>>>>>> >> >> >> substantiate
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> >> >> >> charge,
>>>>>> >> >> >> I would again like to ask whether he should be expelled from
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> >> list,
>>>>>> >> >> >> or
>>>>>> >> >> >> allowed to continue to make allegations without basis?
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> 3.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Re: [Reader-list] Thinking Through Figures on Internal
>>>>>> Displacement
>>>>>> >> >> >> from
>>>>>> >> >> >> Kashmir
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Date: 1 November 2008 2:11:09 PM GMT+05:30
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> (from Pawan Durani)
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> "...Mind it , we are fighting for ourselves and IT IS A UNPAID
>>>>>> JOB,
>>>>>> >> >> >> UNLIKE
>>>>>> >> >> >> SOME SURROGATES WHO ACT PROXY for secessionists in Kashmir and
>>>>>> >> support
>>>>>> >> >> >> their
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> cause by trying to create an opinion..."
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: If what he is doing is an 'unpaid job' it implies,
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> >> >> >> reading
>>>>>> >> >> >> this and the previous quote, that I am doing a 'paid job'
>>>>>> (again
>>>>>> >> >> >> because
>>>>>> >> >> >> this is addressed to me). Once again, the questions I have
>>>>>> asked
>>>>>> >> >> >> immediately
>>>>>> >> >> >> before this still hold.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> 4.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Re: [Reader-list] Thinking Through Figures on Internal
>>>>>> Displacement
>>>>>> >> >> >> from
>>>>>> >> >> >> Kashmir
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Date: 1 November 2008 5:17:49 PM GMT+05:30
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> (from Pawan Durani)
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> "...I dont have time like Shuddha for writing such a long
>>>>>> >> >> >> mail,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >> >> >> also IT
>>>>>> >> >> >> IS NOT MY PAID JOB."
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: Implication - it is Shuddha's "paid job" to write
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> >> >> >> way he
>>>>>> >> >> >> does. See my previous two comments above. Same question holds
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> 5.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Re: [Reader-list] Thinking Through Figures on Internal
>>>>>> Displacement
>>>>>> >> >> >> from
>>>>>> >> >> >> Kashmir
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Date: 2 November 2008 12:37:24 PM GMT+05:30
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> (from Pawan Durani)
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> "We dont need him or his lip service. LET HIM SERVE HIS
>>>>>> >> >> >> MASTERS
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >> we
>>>>>> >> >> >> would continue to counter their agenda..."
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: So providing a detailed set of arguments amounts
>>>>>> >> >> >> to
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> >> >> >> "serving" my "masters". Who are these "masters"? Does Durani
>>>>>> have a
>>>>>> >> >> >> list of
>>>>>> >> >> >> my "masters" or  any proof for the allegation that he is
>>>>>> >> >> >> making
>>>>>> here
>>>>>> >> >> >> that I
>>>>>> >> >> >> write on the list at the bidding of "masters"? If he does not
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> >> this
>>>>>> >> >> >> proof, then again, I am constrained to ask whether or not he
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> >> be
>>>>>> >> >> >> expelled from the list for reasons of defamation.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> 6.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Pandits demand 'internally
>>>>>> >> >> >> displaced
>>>>>> >> >> >> persons'
>>>>>> >> >> >> status
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Date: 3 November 2008 1:33:03 PM GMT+05:30
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> (from Pawan Durani)
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> "...At least WE ARE NOT PUPPETS OF CHINESE IDEOLOGY. You know
>>>>>> what I
>>>>>> >> >> >> mean."
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: The implication here is that those who do not
>>>>>> >> >> >> agree
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> >> >> >> Pawan's position are the puppets of "Chinese ideology"? What
>>>>>> does
>>>>>> >> >> >> "Chinese
>>>>>> >> >> >> ideology" mean? Does it mean, Confucianism, Taoism, Maoism,
>>>>>> >> Kuomintang
>>>>>> >> >> >> Thought, Dengism, Falun Gong tendencies or an unnatural
>>>>>> preference
>>>>>> >> for
>>>>>> >> >> >> Chinese cuisine?
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> I take it (though, who knows, I could be wrong)  that Pawan is
>>>>>> >> >> >> referring to
>>>>>> >> >> >> a willingness to act at the behest of 'Chinese' masters,
>>>>>> >> specifically
>>>>>> >> >> >> those
>>>>>> >> >> >> in positions of power within the Chinese Communist Party and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >> >> >> government
>>>>>> >> >> >> of the Peoples Republic of China.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> If so, how would he explain the fact that several of the
>>>>>> >> >> >> people
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> >> >> >> would
>>>>>> >> >> >> identify as his adversaries (me, for instance) have been vocal
>>>>>> >> critics
>>>>>> >> >> >> of
>>>>>> >> >> >> Maoism (all varieties), the Chinese Communist Party and the
>>>>>> >> government
>>>>>> >> >> >> of
>>>>>> >> >> >> the Peoples Republic of China on this list. We have in fact
>>>>>> gone on
>>>>>> >> >> >> record
>>>>>> >> >> >> to point out the similarities between the way in which the
>>>>>> >> government
>>>>>> >> >> >> of
>>>>>> >> >> >> mainland China deals with Tibet, and the way in which the
>>>>>> Government
>>>>>> >> of
>>>>>> >> >> >> India deals with the occupation that it undertakes in Kashmir.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> In the light of this fact, the above allegation is rendered
>>>>>> >> baseless.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> 7.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Pandits demand 'internally
>>>>>> >> >> >> displaced
>>>>>> >> >> >> persons'
>>>>>> >> >> >> status
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> 3 November 2008 1:42:34 PM GMT+05:30
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> (from Aditya Raj Kaul)
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> "It has become so usual now to SEE THESE PUPPETS SPEAK THEIR
>>>>>> MASTERS
>>>>>> >> >> >> TONE..."
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: Here, Aditya Raj Kaul echoes Pawan Durani's
>>>>>> insinuation
>>>>>> >> >> >> that
>>>>>> >> >> >> anyone who questions them (him and Durani) are "puppets" who
>>>>>> act at
>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>> >> >> >> behest of their masters.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> -----------------
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>  Re: [Reader-list] SIMI Activists found with SAR Geelani CDs
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> 9 November 2008 14:14:12 IST 2008
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> (from Aditya Raj Kaul)
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> "dear SANJAY KAK'S PROPOGANDA AGENT ON PAYROLLS OF YASIN MALIK
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: None
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> __________________________
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> I am giving Pawan Durani and Aditya Raj Kaul exactly one day
>>>>>> (from
>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>> >> >> >> date
>>>>>> >> >> >> and time of this posting) to furnish detailed, substantiatable
>>>>>> proof
>>>>>> >> >> >> for
>>>>>> >> >> >> what I consider to be the allegations in their defamatory and
>>>>>> >> >> >> scurrilous
>>>>>> >> >> >> postings aimed at me and others on this list.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> If they are not able to furnish these proofs within this one
>>>>>> day.
>>>>>> >> Or,
>>>>>> >> >> >> if
>>>>>> >> >> >> the proofs they furnish are found to be insubstantial,
>>>>>> motivated and
>>>>>> >> >> >> inadequate to the charges that they make, then I would request
>>>>>>  the
>>>>>> >> >> >> list
>>>>>> >> >> >> administrator that both of them be expelled from this list
>>>>>> >> >> >> with
>>>>>> >> >> >> immediate
>>>>>> >> >> >> effect.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Let me clarify one thing in closing. I am and have always been
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> >> >> >> favour of
>>>>>> >> >> >> freedom of expression. And I have defended (over the last year
>>>>>> and a
>>>>>> >> >> >> half)
>>>>>> >> >> >> the right of Pawan Durani and Aditya Raj Kaul and their allies
>>>>>> (in
>>>>>> >> >> >> serious
>>>>>> >> >> >> offline discussions) to continue to torment this list with
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> >> >> >> rubbish
>>>>>> >> >> >> time and time again when demands have been made for his
>>>>>> expulsion on
>>>>>> >> >> >> grounds
>>>>>> >> >> >> of 'hate speech'. I am willing to go the extra mile to give
>>>>>> >> >> >> the
>>>>>> >> benefit
>>>>>> >> >> >> of
>>>>>> >> >> >> the doubt when someone stands accused of 'hate speech'
>>>>>> especially
>>>>>> >> when
>>>>>> >> >> >> I do
>>>>>> >> >> >> not agree with them, because I think that even things said in
>>>>>> anger
>>>>>> >> >> >> need a
>>>>>> >> >> >> hearing. And I have gone that extra mile with Pawan Durani,
>>>>>> Aditya
>>>>>> >> Raj
>>>>>> >> >> >> Kaul
>>>>>> >> >> >> and their allies.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> But defamation and libel are offenses, not opinions. The harm
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> >> they
>>>>>> >> >> >> can
>>>>>> >> >> >> do is objectively verifiable, not a matter of speculation or
>>>>>> >> >> >> conjecture.
>>>>>> >> >> >> Opinions, no matter how vile they may be can be countered by
>>>>>> >> arguments
>>>>>> >> >> >> and
>>>>>> >> >> >> better formulated opinions. But the lies that attack peoples
>>>>>> >> personal
>>>>>> >> >> >> lives
>>>>>> >> >> >> and conduct, especially when they are uttered on public fora,
>>>>>> spread
>>>>>> >> >> >> poison
>>>>>> >> >> >> if they are not dealt with exemplary and immediate severity.
>>>>>> There
>>>>>> >> have
>>>>>> >> >> >> to
>>>>>> >> >> >> be consequences for such conduct, no matter who does it.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> If someone says that I am paid to speak in the way that I do
>>>>>> >> >> >> by
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> >> >> >> foreign
>>>>>> >> >> >> power, then there is no ambiguity in this statement. EIther I
>>>>>> am, or
>>>>>> >> I
>>>>>> >> >> >> am
>>>>>> >> >> >> not. I know I am not. The mails that I am referring to above
>>>>>> >> suggests
>>>>>> >> >> >> that I
>>>>>> >> >> >> am, and several others on the list are. And since this is a
>>>>>> >> statement
>>>>>> >> >> >> about
>>>>>> >> >> >> concrete people, not about some abstractions . then the only
>>>>>> way to
>>>>>> >> >> >> settle
>>>>>> >> >> >> this is to demand that the person or persons making the
>>>>>> allegation
>>>>>> >> >> >> proves
>>>>>> >> >> >> what they say, or faces the consequences of bearing false
>>>>>> witness.
>>>>>> >> The
>>>>>> >> >> >> reason I am saying this is because there actually are very
>>>>>> serious
>>>>>> >> >> >> consequences to being thought of as a 'paid' agent of a
>>>>>> 'foreign
>>>>>> >> power'
>>>>>> >> >> >> in
>>>>>> >> >> >> this country, at a time like what we are going through, today.
>>>>>> Such
>>>>>> >> >> >> accusations and labels cannot and must not be taken lightly.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Either he is lying, or I am. And an untruth about a person is
>>>>>> libel
>>>>>> >> and
>>>>>> >> >> >> cannot by any stretch of imagination be subject to protection
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> >> >> >> grounds
>>>>>> >> >> >> of freedom of expression. This forum would be betraying itself
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>> >> >> >> reasons why it was founded if it confuses the license to
>>>>>> >> >> >> defame
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> >> >> >> person or
>>>>>> >> >> >> persons with the freedom of expression.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> I hope I have made myself abundantly clear. I have nothing to
>>>>>> >> conceal.
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> regards
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> Shuddha
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> > _________________________________________
>>>>>> >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>>>>> >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations
>>>>>> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to
>>>>>> >> >> > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith
>>>>>> >> >> > subscribe in the subject header.
>>>>>> >> >> > To unsubscribe:
>>>>>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>>>>> >> >> > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> _________________________________________
>>>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>>>>> Critiques & Collaborations
>>>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>>>>>> subscribe in the subject header.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>>>>> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe
>> in the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>

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