[Reader-list] About Accusations on this List

Aditya Raj Kaul kauladityaraj at gmail.com
Mon Nov 10 23:13:03 IST 2008 

Why not ask for proof from Inder Salim, Shivam Vij, Shuddha and Aarti ? Or,
do they satisfy your set rules of discrimination.

My response in the past has been on various provocations by list members
against Kashmiri Pandits or some other related issue. I will continue to
object where ever I feel the need whenever, let me assure at least this
much.

If you want to continue with Sarai, without me, do that, but this sets a
wrong example of a biased, discriminatory and castiest forum. If you agree
with it, remove me.

Truth won't change, it will continue to taste bitter to you all (few list
members) who have initiated this tirade against me. I honestly don't care.

My work, campaigns, awareness drive, struggle will continue anyway. Sarai
can't kill me forever. They can just silence me from this small forum.

There have been occasions when my group  and myself have been accused of
being 'terrorists', 'fundamentalists', 'extremists'.....there are hundred
more such allegations...!! If you can't digest the opposite opinion, you
easily abuse and malign a person. This is what has been happening.

I don't care about Shuddha's one day time or any such thing. Who is Shuddha
to suggest us what to do ?

I've been clear from the very first day of my membership on this forum. My
campaigns have been open, and not filled with any hidden agenda (like most
communists aka communalists) have.

The S.A.R. Geelani protest by Delhi University Students Union (DUSU) which
sparked of this debate, was justified completely. Geelani has no business to
speak on so called 'Hindu Terrorism' and incite communal passion in Delhi
University Students. He is a language faculty member, and should stick to
his job.

Most people know why some 'vested interests' under his leadership are
creating tension and raising finger on the Batla House Encounter. Martyred
cop Inspector M.C. Sharma was the investigation officer in the case of
Geelani. Rest all is clear.

I need not answer any more doubts.

Also, do visit - www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/

Thanks





On 11/10/08, Fatima फ़ातिमा <fatimaschool45 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Sarai Moderator,
>
> While I respect and sympathize with the cause of Kashmiri pandits (as
> much as I cry for the plight of Kashmiri Muslims), I would love to see
> a healthier Sarai list with more respect, tolerance, and patience from
> every one. I fully support freedom of expression, but I have no room
> for any kind of personal attacks and insults.
>
> I support the removal of these people who were asked to provide a
> proof of their accusations but have failed to do so.
>
> regrds
>
>
> Fatima
>
>
>
> On 11/10/08, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Lal Salaam Aarti,
> >
> > You have different criteria to be part of this group , even if you write
> > just *anything*.
> >
> > Why should Shuddha be absolved of defamation of groups which are the only
> > voice of Kashmiri Hindus.
> >
> > I still believe that people do write surrogately for somebodys cause and
> for
> > a situation like Kashmir , various groups or agencies within and outside
> > India would have their support structures.
> >
> > if you dont believe that these group exist , you live in some other
> world.
> > And if Shuddha has taken this statement to himslef , it is his problem.
> >
> > I see that these groups are a block for Shuddhas ideology.
> >
> > Pawan
> > PS.... Simple one liners are best suited offline. That is again a basic
> > group mailing rule. Had i been rude or whatever in my offline , you would
> > have been right to object.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/10/08, Aarti Sethi <aarti.sethi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Lal Salaam Pawan, no I am not. But nor are you. But then there are
> things
> >> I
> >> am not - such as a liar- which cannot be said for you. Also I am not
> going
> >> to be expelled from the list for defaming people. Nor can this be said
> >> about
> >> you. So I guess the similarity between us ends there huh?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Pawan Durani
> >> <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>
> >>> lal Salaam,,
> >>>
> >>> Arti,
> >>>
> >>> Are u a moderator ?
> >>>
> >>> pawan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  On 11/10/08, Aarti Sethi <aarti.sethi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I've heard of wolves in sheep's clothing, but this is my first
> encounter
> >>>> with sheep in wolves clothing!! Wonders of wonders, when finally our
> >>>> fire-breathing warriors are called out on their lies, they have
> nothing
> >>>> but
> >>>> bleats to offer.
> >>>>
> >>>> Pawan, again. This has nothing to do with democracy or your ideology.
> If
> >>>> we wanted you expelled because of your ideaology, we would have
> demanded
> >>>> it
> >>>> long ago. I have never demanded it, nor has Shuddha. In fact on
> separate
> >>>> occasions I have *defended* your right to speak. And why is Shuddha
> not
> >>>> asking that Dhatri or Chanchal be expelled? We abhor their ideaology
> as
> >>>> well.
> >>>>
> >>>> So trying to play the victim this time is not going to work my friend.
> >>>> The game is up. You made certain statements, you defamed people, you
> put
> >>>> question marks on their credibility. Credibility and ideaology are not
> >>>> the
> >>>> same thing. Now you have to put your money (or Yaseen Malik's money)
> >>>> where
> >>>> your mouth (or Shuddha's mouth) is.
> >>>>
> >>>> Prove it, or leave. Its simple. And before you make baseless
> allegations
> >>>> against people the next time, look back at this experience and ask
> >>>> yourself
> >>>> whether it might be better in your life to use arguments and facts,
> >>>> rather
> >>>> than lies and abuse, as your currency of choice.
> >>>>
> >>>> Warm regards
> >>>> (as it seems for the last time)
> >>>>
> >>>> Aarti
> >>>>
> >>>> P.S Please don't write to me off-list again. I do not wish to have any
> >>>> private communications with you at all.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Pawan Durani
> >>>> <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Lastly,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My expulsion from the group is demanded by people of certain ideology
> >>>>> which
> >>>>> I can understand.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The expuslion is demanded by members and not from the moderator. I
> have
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> right of either replying or ignoring mails or questions to me by any
> >>>>> member.
> >>>>> So do not remind me of any clock. [ BTW is that clock set to IST or
> ??
> >>>>> ]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Even i have demanded the expulsion of few.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If the moderator wishes to remove me , so be it . I will not contest
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> judgement of the Moderator. I myslef runa group which is more than
> >>>>> double
> >>>>> the size of SARAI mailing list. I myself try to see the group moving
> in
> >>>>> my
> >>>>> ideology.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So if the moderator believes that I need to be removed , I can
> >>>>> understand
> >>>>> that I am a hurdle in certain ideology and this group does not
> believe
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> either democracy or secularism. So let the moderator decide
> ........If
> >>>>> i
> >>>>> am
> >>>>> really a hurdle.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But remember ......when red fades .....it becomes saffron.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> regards
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Pawan Durani
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Kirdar,
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > What makes Shuddha write anything bad about Panun Kashmir . What
> >>>>> > makes
> >>>>> him
> >>>>> > think that someone whom he doesnt like belong to Panun Kashmir.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > To the best of my knowledge , no Panun Kashmir member is a part of
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> > group.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Is he not guilty of 'defamation' if he considers me as being one.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I wont mind walking out ......arm in arm with Godhra.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > And about Surrogates.........Let anyone deny that surroagates dont
> >>>>> > exist........and what would make you believe that this list doesnt
> >>>>> have one.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Pawan
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >  On 11/10/08, Kirdar <kirdarsingh at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Dear Pawan
> >>>>> >> If you read my earlier mails on this subject, I have said again
> and
> >>>>> >> again that no one is mocking the plight of displaced Kashmiri
> >>>>> >> pundits
> >>>>> >> on this list (can you quote one, only one mail which makes fun of
> >>>>> >> Kashmiri pundit's suffering?). Any right thinking person would
> >>>>> >> sympathize with your cause. But you have killed your own cause by
> >>>>> >> hitting at people who have nothing to do with your suffering.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> No body supports "Islamic" extremism here. They do raise concerns
> >>>>> >> about innocent citizens being hounded in the name of "war on
> terror"
> >>>>> -
> >>>>> >> but tell me, what is wrong with that? Is it a crime to raise
> >>>>> >> concerns
> >>>>> >> about the plight of Indian Muslims for instance? If some Kashmiri
> >>>>> >> Muslims have driven you out of Kashmir, does it mean that all
> >>>>> >> Muslims
> >>>>> >> are responsible and punishable for that? This is the impression
> that
> >>>>> >> your posts seems to be giving. And I think the people here are
> >>>>> >> simply
> >>>>> >> trying to reduce your misunderstandings. Why should anyone be
> happy
> >>>>> >> about the plight of KPs.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> You are again coming back to "Chinese ideology" and "surrogates"
> and
> >>>>> >> so on. But you haven't shown a single proof yet. Come on... the
> >>>>> >> clock
> >>>>> >> is ticking.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Kirdar
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Pawan Durani <
> >>>>> pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> >>>>> >> wrote:
> >>>>> >> > Dear Kirdar,
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > I am not answerable to Shuddhas of this world. I know where they
> >>>>> come
> >>>>> >> from .
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > 1. If I say that we are fighting a proxy war against the
> >>>>> >> > supporters
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> >> > separatists , does it implicate Shuddha of being one
> >>>>> >> > ,.......unless
> >>>>> he
> >>>>> >> > considers himself one.
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > 2. If Ray can write that he is investigating those who spitted
> on
> >>>>> >> Geelani
> >>>>> >> > and suspect that the person is from SARAI group, so can even i
> >>>>> write
> >>>>> >> that
> >>>>> >> > the credentials of certain people on the list are being
> >>>>> >> investigated.What
> >>>>> >> > makes the two different ?
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > 3. If I say that certain journalists are on the account roll of
> >>>>> certain
> >>>>> >> > organisations or foreign country , thats a hard fact and it
> >>>>> >> > happens
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> >> all
> >>>>> >> > countries. Why does it pain Shuddha if I havent named him,
> unless
> >>>>> he co
> >>>>> >> > -relates it to himslef . Well, this group has hundreds of
> members
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> >> non
> >>>>> >> > except couple or more get embarrassed. Why ?
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > 4. Well , isnt Kashmir a Proxy war place ? Arent there
> surrogates
> >>>>> just
> >>>>> >> > everywhere ? Would anyone deny that ? In Kashmir I dont trust
> >>>>> anyone
> >>>>> >> > .....and i see many surrogates in even Delhi. There may be few
> on
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> >> list
> >>>>> >> > as well. Can anyone deny that ? I see many acts which are
> >>>>> >> > surrogate
> >>>>> >> .....
> >>>>> >> > Why does anyone want me change my opinion. Unless someone does
> see
> >>>>> >> himself
> >>>>> >> > as a surrogate with active participation.....
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > 5. If someone can write to me about being from RSS , MNS , Shiv
> >>>>> Sena ,
> >>>>> >> Panun
> >>>>> >> > Kashmir or Roots In Kashmir , so be it. Not that i find anything
> >>>>> wrong
> >>>>> >> with
> >>>>> >> > that , i personally have a lot of respect for these
> organisations.
> >>>>> >> However i
> >>>>> >> > have friends in all these organisations and even though i am one
> >>>>> >> > of
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> >> > founder and visualiser of roots in kashmir , I no longer am its
> >>>>> member
> >>>>> >> as we
> >>>>> >> > believe it has to belong to youths. At times they come to me for
> >>>>> advise.
> >>>>> >> But
> >>>>> >> > i dont need to get embarrassed for getting associated with
> anyone
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> >> these.
> >>>>> >> > These organisations are patriotic and fight for a cause against
> >>>>> >> > all
> >>>>> >> odds.
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > Who can deny that Roots In Kashmir and Panun Kashmir are the two
> >>>>> >> > organisations who have talked and spread the cause of Kashmiri
> >>>>> pandits
> >>>>> >> world
> >>>>> >> > across. Why does Shuddha always target these two. is it not to
> >>>>> scuttle
> >>>>> >> the
> >>>>> >> > voice of Kashmiri pandits. Do I see a pattern here for no
> reasons
> >>>>> >> > ?
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > And who can deny that there are leftists who get mesmerised with
> >>>>> Chinese
> >>>>> >> > ideology. C'mon accept it . Shuddha may or may not ......but why
> >>>>> does it
> >>>>> >> > effect him only when i write about it , unless he considers
> >>>>> >> > himself
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> >> > supporter of that ?
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > I do see a pattern , planned one here. The way to celebrate
> >>>>> >> > freedom
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> >> to
> >>>>> >> > scusttle voice of the Kashmiri pandits , the community which has
> >>>>> >> undergone
> >>>>> >> > Exodus and genocide.
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > I love to fight a battle on foreign turf , that is why I am
> here.
> >>>>> >> > I
> >>>>> >> myself
> >>>>> >> > run a group which is much bigger than SARAI .I know what to word
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> >> what
> >>>>> >> > not to word.
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > If I have to be removed , please do ....i do not and will not
> >>>>> challenge
> >>>>> >> a
> >>>>> >> > moderator. But then Justice have to be balanced. So should
> Shuddha
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> >> > others be removed.
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > I know the moderators of this group do read each word carefully
> ,
> >>>>> so
> >>>>> >> they do
> >>>>> >> > know what and how Shuddha write and manipulate !
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > I volunteer myslef to be removed , but i  company of Shuddha.
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > Regards
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > Pawan Durani
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > jai Andhra , Jai Hindustan
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > On 11/10/08, Kirdar <kirdarsingh at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> Dear Pawan
> >>>>> >> >> You should read Shuddha's mail carefully. He has raised a
> >>>>> >> >> specific
> >>>>> >> >> issue of your accusing him and others of being "paid agents of
> >>>>> foreign
> >>>>> >> >> powers" and so on. He has asked you to furnish proofs to
> support
> >>>>> such
> >>>>> >> >> an accusation, for which you have been given a day to respond.
> I
> >>>>> think
> >>>>> >> >> this time he sounds rather serious - the clock is ticking -
> half
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> >> >> day is already gone. Please substantiate your accusations or
> you
> >>>>> are
> >>>>> >> >> gone.
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> I had also asked all of you many times to come to the point
> >>>>> >> >> rather
> >>>>> >> >> than accusing the others - but my message had no effect on you.
> I
> >>>>> >> >> would suggest that if you cannot provide the required proof,
> >>>>> please
> >>>>> >> >> take your words back and apologize everyone for the accusations
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> >> >> made. Promise to never indulge in sullying others on this list.
> >>>>> Maybe
> >>>>> >> >> your expulsion can be revoked. I know I am sounding like a
> school
> >>>>> >> >> master, but maybe that's the only hope for you.
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> Kirdar
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 10:28 AM, Pawan Durani <
> >>>>> pawan.durani at gmail.com
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> >> wrote:
> >>>>> >> >> > Dear All,
> >>>>> >> >> >
> >>>>> >> >> > For those who have championed "how we celebrate
> Freedom,remain
> >>>>> >> exposed.
> >>>>> >> >> > The
> >>>>> >> >> > freedom of others to express their thoughts.
> >>>>> >> >> >
> >>>>> >> >> > How come Shuddha forgets how he has himsef accused others
> like
> >>>>> me ,
> >>>>> >> >> > Aditya ,
> >>>>> >> >> > roots in Kashmir , Panun Kashmir , BJP and RSS etc etc.
> >>>>> >> >> >
> >>>>> >> >> > His talk on Kashmir , accusations against Roots in Kashmir
> are
> >>>>> >> nothing
> >>>>> >> >> > but
> >>>>> >> >> > figment of his own imagination.
> >>>>> >> >> >
> >>>>> >> >> > If I have to be removed from the list , so would Shuddha ,
> >>>>> >> >> > Inder
> >>>>> ,
> >>>>> >> >> > Shivam
> >>>>> >> >> > and Arti have to be.
> >>>>> >> >> >
> >>>>> >> >> > Let the Moderators remove all , if that is what is required.
> >>>>> >> >> >
> >>>>> >> >> > Pawan
> >>>>> >> >> >
> >>>>> >> >> >
> >>>>> >> >> >
> >>>>> >> >> > On 11/9/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>  Dear All,
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> I have noticed a curious and remarkable phenomenon of late
> on
> >>>>> our
> >>>>> >> list,
> >>>>> >> >> >> and
> >>>>> >> >> >> am wondering whether or not any of you have noticed it too.
> >>>>> >> >> >> Unfortunately it
> >>>>> >> >> >> is not without precedent.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> We know well by now that when those who speak for 'Panun
> >>>>> Kashmir'
> >>>>> >> and
> >>>>> >> >> >> 'Roots in Kashmir' run out of arguments, especially when
> faced
> >>>>> with
> >>>>> >> >> >> detailed
> >>>>> >> >> >> and cross referenced material that does not support their
> >>>>> 'case',
> >>>>> >> >> >> habitually
> >>>>> >> >> >> retort with abuse, invective and insinuation. They express
> >>>>> their
> >>>>> >> >> >> desires to
> >>>>> >> >> >> 'spit' on people's faces, exactly as their ABVP / Sri Ram
> Sena
> >>>>>  goon
> >>>>> >> >> >> allies
> >>>>> >> >> >> spit on the faces of university lecturers invited to speak
> at
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> >> >> >> university.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Of late, there has been another kind of 'spitting' going on
> in
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> >> >> >> list,
> >>>>> >> >> >> and in the online communications emanating from individuals
> >>>>> >> associated
> >>>>> >> >> >> with
> >>>>> >> >> >> 'Panun Kashmir' and 'Roots in Kashmir'.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>  I am speaking about a curious pattern of a specific kind of
> >>>>> >> >> >> insinuations
> >>>>> >> >> >> emanating mainly from Pawan Durani (but also of late from
> >>>>> Aditya Raj
> >>>>> >> >> >> Kaul)
> >>>>> >> >> >> that suggest that whosoever does not agree with the PK/RIK
> >>>>> gospel or
> >>>>> >> >> >> the
> >>>>> >> >> >> broad hardline Indian nationalist position on anything must
> be
> >>>>> doing
> >>>>> >> so
> >>>>> >> >> >> because they are actively doing the bidding of their
> 'foreign
> >>>>> >> masters'
> >>>>> >> >> >> and
> >>>>> >> >> >> further, because they are being 'paid' to do so. Since their
> >>>>> ethical
> >>>>> >> >> >> horizons are severely limited and compromised, the makers of
> >>>>> these
> >>>>> >> >> >> accusations cannot imagine that some of us take a principled
> >>>>> >> position
> >>>>> >> >> >> against the things that they hold sacrosant. And so, failing
> >>>>> >> >> >> to
> >>>>> >> account
> >>>>> >> >> >> for
> >>>>> >> >> >> the ethical basis of our opposition, they leap to accuse us
> of
> >>>>> being
> >>>>> >> >> >> adversarial purely for the sake of private and pecuniary
> gain.
> >>>>> So,
> >>>>> >> >> >> 'writers'
> >>>>> >> >> >> and journalists are paid by their terrorist masters, I am a
> >>>>> paid
> >>>>> >> agent,
> >>>>> >> >> >> Sanjay Kak was paid by Yasin Malik (this is a charge that
> was
> >>>>> made
> >>>>> >> when
> >>>>> >> >> >> the
> >>>>> >> >> >> debate on Jashn-e-Azadi began) and Prakash Ray is 'Sanjay
> >>>>> >> >> >> Kak's
> >>>>> >> >> >> propoganda
> >>>>> >> >> >> agent on the payroll of Yasin Malik' , and so on.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> This allegation that ones critics are ones critics because
> >>>>> >> >> >> they
> >>>>> are
> >>>>> >> >> >> being
> >>>>> >> >> >> paid to be critics and that too by devious foreign powers or
> >>>>> their
> >>>>> >> >> >> local
> >>>>> >> >> >> clients is the time tested 'foreign hand' and 'agent of the
> >>>>> foreign
> >>>>> >> >> >> hand'
> >>>>> >> >> >> theory that is the Brahmastra (secret lethal weapon) that
> >>>>> Indian
> >>>>> >> >> >> politicians
> >>>>> >> >> >> (and not only Indian politicians) resort to when all else
> >>>>> fails. It
> >>>>> >> is
> >>>>> >> >> >> the
> >>>>> >> >> >> true hallmark of a failure of reason, a profound disconnect
> >>>>> with
> >>>>> >> >> >> reality and
> >>>>> >> >> >> dismal poverty of the political imagination. It attempts to
> >>>>> hide but
> >>>>> >> >> >> fails
> >>>>> >> >> >> to conceal a rancid, rabid, raucous politics.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Of course, as is evident from the emails forwarded by Sonia
> >>>>> Jabbar
> >>>>> >> on
> >>>>> >> >> >> to
> >>>>> >> >> >> the list recently, some of the illustrious company that Mr.
> >>>>> Durani
> >>>>> >> >> >> keeps,
> >>>>> >> >> >> such as the gentleman known as Ashish Zutshi, another 'Roots
> >>>>> >> >> >> in
> >>>>> >> >> >> Kashmir'
> >>>>> >> >> >> luminary, himself offered her a 'reasonable sum of money' to
> >>>>> write
> >>>>> >> for
> >>>>> >> >> >> their
> >>>>> >> >> >> cause. Perhaps the sleazy language of bribery is the only
> one
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> >> >> >> these
> >>>>> >> >> >> gentlemen understand, because at least in this case, they
> seem
> >>>>> to be
> >>>>> >> >> >> doing
> >>>>> >> >> >> precisely what (offering a bribe) that they accuse us of
> being
> >>>>> >> beholden
> >>>>> >> >> >> to.
> >>>>> >> >> >> Rather, this is a case of one kind of influence peddlers
> >>>>> admitting
> >>>>> >> to
> >>>>> >> >> >> the
> >>>>> >> >> >> fact that they lament not having their current adversaries
> as
> >>>>> their
> >>>>> >> own
> >>>>> >> >> >> 'paid agents'. Why else would they offer to pay someone who
> >>>>> doesn't
> >>>>> >> >> >> agree
> >>>>> >> >> >> with them a 'reasonable amount' to change her mind.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> In the last two weeks there have been several specific
> >>>>> occasions
> >>>>> >> when
> >>>>> >> >> >> either I, or someone broadly willing to question the PK/RIK
> >>>>> hard
> >>>>> >> line
> >>>>> >> >> >> nationalist gospel has been called a paid 'agent'. Further,
> >>>>> Aarti
> >>>>> >> has
> >>>>> >> >> >> been
> >>>>> >> >> >> accused of selling herself 'cheaply' and Sanjay Kak has been
> >>>>> accused
> >>>>> >> of
> >>>>> >> >> >> taking money from Yasin Malik. And there have also been two
> >>>>> specific
> >>>>> >> >> >> occasions when people (Aman and me, by implication) have
> been
> >>>>> called
> >>>>> >> >> >> 'puppets of the Chinese'.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Now this is something that I take quite seriously. I do not
> >>>>> take
> >>>>> >> this
> >>>>> >> >> >> casually, as I do not think that these accusations are made
> >>>>> casually
> >>>>> >> >> >> either.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> The allegations suggest, basically, that some of us are
> >>>>> >> >> >> writing
> >>>>> what
> >>>>> >> we
> >>>>> >> >> >> are
> >>>>> >> >> >> writing on this list because some 'foreign power'  or
> >>>>> 'terrorist' is
> >>>>> >> >> >> greasing our palms. Since I am included in this list, I am
> >>>>> willing
> >>>>> >> to
> >>>>> >> >> >> take
> >>>>> >> >> >> on this matter personally. Notwithstanding the fact that my
> >>>>> bank
> >>>>> >> >> >> accounts
> >>>>> >> >> >> suggest otherwise, I am insulted to know that Pawan Durani
> >>>>> should
> >>>>> >> think
> >>>>> >> >> >> that
> >>>>> >> >> >> my political convictions and reflections are available for
> >>>>> purchase
> >>>>> >> at
> >>>>> >> >> >> such
> >>>>> >> >> >> low rates in the market, or, more fundamentally, that I am a
> >>>>> hired
> >>>>> >> hack
> >>>>> >> >> >> who
> >>>>> >> >> >> writes not out of conviction but  for the sake of crumbs and
> >>>>> >> leavings
> >>>>> >> >> >> from
> >>>>> >> >> >> my 'masters' table. The Reader List is a space of freedom.
> No
> >>>>> one is
> >>>>> >> >> >> paid by
> >>>>> >> >> >> the hosts  or the administrator of the list to write
> anything.
> >>>>> No
> >>>>> >> >> >> payments
> >>>>> >> >> >> are sought from the hosts or administrator for any kind of
> >>>>> writing
> >>>>> >> >> >> either.
> >>>>> >> >> >> My professional responsibilities at Sarai do not include
> >>>>> writing on
> >>>>> >> the
> >>>>> >> >> >> Reader List either.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> I consider this an insult to the community of the reader
> list,
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> >> the
> >>>>> >> >> >> Sarai
> >>>>> >> >> >> programme at CSDS and a serious affront to my reputation and
> >>>>> >> >> >> my
> >>>>> >> >> >> professional
> >>>>> >> >> >> standing. I do not wish to ignore this or take it lightly,
> >>>>> >> especially
> >>>>> >> >> >> as
> >>>>> >> >> >> this has been made on a very public forum. I may have been
> >>>>> willing
> >>>>> >> to
> >>>>> >> >> >> ignore
> >>>>> >> >> >> the odd barb of this nature (and it is not that it has not
> >>>>> >> >> >> been
> >>>>> >> thrown
> >>>>> >> >> >> in
> >>>>> >> >> >> the past) but when we get seven defamatory missives in two
> >>>>> weeks,
> >>>>> >> then
> >>>>> >> >> >> we
> >>>>> >> >> >> are looking at a serious and determined pattern that I do
> not
> >>>>> think
> >>>>> >> >> >> deserves
> >>>>> >> >> >> to be ignored or overlooked.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Let's look at each one of these instances. I have tagged
> each
> >>>>> quote
> >>>>> >> >> >> with
> >>>>> >> >> >> the subject header and the date of the posting from which it
> >>>>> >> >> >> is
> >>>>> >> taken,
> >>>>> >> >> >> so
> >>>>> >> >> >> that they can be traced easily by all list members. My
> >>>>> >> >> >> comments
> >>>>> >> follow
> >>>>> >> >> >> each
> >>>>> >> >> >> quotation. Certain portions within each quotation have been
> >>>>> >> capitalized
> >>>>> >> >> >> for
> >>>>> >> >> >> reasons of emphasis (mine).
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> --------------------------
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> 1.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Re: [Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Date: 21 October 2008 6:21:56 PM GMT+05:30
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> (from Pawan Durani)
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> "...Notwithsatnding a well CALCULATED EFFORT BACKED BY A
> >>>>> FOREIGN
> >>>>> >> >> >> COUNTRY ,
> >>>>> >> >> >> so called intellectuals and so called jornalists who created
> a
> >>>>> >> >> >> disinformation campaign, such as in Jamia Encounter ,
> >>>>> Parlaiment
> >>>>> >> case
> >>>>> >> >> >> are
> >>>>> >> >> >> being followed more closely.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Number of people are supposed to be under close scanner and
> >>>>> their
> >>>>> >> links
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> ascertained. Hoping the truth and the DETAILS PAYOUTS will
> >>>>> >> >> >> come
> >>>>> out
> >>>>> >> >> >> soon..."
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: Pawan Durani claims to know the following -
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> (a) that those raising questions about the Jamia Encounter
> and
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> >> >> >> Parliament Attack case are party to a 'well calculated
> effort
> >>>>> backed
> >>>>> >> by
> >>>>> >> >> >> a
> >>>>> >> >> >> foreign country'
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> (b) that they are 'under a close scanner', their 'links are
> >>>>> being
> >>>>> >> >> >> ascertained'
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> (c) that the 'details' of 'payouts' will come out soon...
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> In all fairness, either he should furnish the list with
> >>>>> >> >> >> details
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> >> how
> >>>>> >> >> >> he
> >>>>> >> >> >> can substantiate (a - which foreign country?), (b) & (c)
> >>>>> >> >> >> above,
> >>>>> or
> >>>>> >> >> >> stand
> >>>>> >> >> >> charged of making baseless allegations designed to malign
> the
> >>>>> >> character
> >>>>> >> >> >> and
> >>>>> >> >> >> reputation of people in a public forum.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> In the event that he cannot prove (a), (b) & (c) I would
> like
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> >> know
> >>>>> >> >> >> whether or not list members believe that this alone ought
> not
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> >> count
> >>>>> >> >> >> as
> >>>>> >> >> >> sufficient reason for his expulsion from the list ?
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> 2.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Re: [Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Date: 25 October 2008 3:53:21 PM GMT+05:30
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> (from Pawan Durani)
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> "...I know I am not a master of mixing words NOR IS THIS A
> >>>>> >> >> >> FULL
> >>>>> TIME
> >>>>> >> >> >> JOB
> >>>>> >> >> >> FOR ME  FOR WHICH I GET PAID FOR..." (sic)
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: This is specifically addressed to me. Since I am
> >>>>> neither
> >>>>> >> >> >> employed nor monetarily compensated to write posts on the
> >>>>> Reader
> >>>>> >> List
> >>>>> >> >> >> on any
> >>>>> >> >> >> subject whatsoever, and do so entierly of my own free will,
> I
> >>>>> want
> >>>>> >> to
> >>>>> >> >> >> know
> >>>>> >> >> >> what Pawan Durani means when he implies that writing on the
> >>>>> Reader
> >>>>> >> List
> >>>>> >> >> >> is a
> >>>>> >> >> >> 'full time job for which I get paid'. Again, if he cannot
> >>>>> >> substantiate
> >>>>> >> >> >> this,
> >>>>> >> >> >> it will amount to defamation because it will imply that I
> say
> >>>>> what I
> >>>>> >> >> >> do, or
> >>>>> >> >> >> have the political convictions that I have because I am paid
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> >> this.
> >>>>> >> >> >> In
> >>>>> >> >> >> other words, that I am a 'mercenary'. If he cannot
> >>>>> >> >> >> substantiate
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> >> >> >> charge,
> >>>>> >> >> >> I would again like to ask whether he should be expelled from
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> >> list,
> >>>>> >> >> >> or
> >>>>> >> >> >> allowed to continue to make allegations without basis?
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> 3.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Re: [Reader-list] Thinking Through Figures on Internal
> >>>>> Displacement
> >>>>> >> >> >> from
> >>>>> >> >> >> Kashmir
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Date: 1 November 2008 2:11:09 PM GMT+05:30
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> (from Pawan Durani)
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> "...Mind it , we are fighting for ourselves and IT IS A
> UNPAID
> >>>>> JOB,
> >>>>> >> >> >> UNLIKE
> >>>>> >> >> >> SOME SURROGATES WHO ACT PROXY for secessionists in Kashmir
> and
> >>>>> >> support
> >>>>> >> >> >> their
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> cause by trying to create an opinion..."
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: If what he is doing is an 'unpaid job' it
> implies,
> >>>>> from
> >>>>> >> >> >> reading
> >>>>> >> >> >> this and the previous quote, that I am doing a 'paid job'
> >>>>> (again
> >>>>> >> >> >> because
> >>>>> >> >> >> this is addressed to me). Once again, the questions I have
> >>>>> asked
> >>>>> >> >> >> immediately
> >>>>> >> >> >> before this still hold.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> 4.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Re: [Reader-list] Thinking Through Figures on Internal
> >>>>> Displacement
> >>>>> >> >> >> from
> >>>>> >> >> >> Kashmir
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Date: 1 November 2008 5:17:49 PM GMT+05:30
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> (from Pawan Durani)
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> "...I dont have time like Shuddha for writing such a long
> >>>>> >> >> >> mail,
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> >> >> >> also IT
> >>>>> >> >> >> IS NOT MY PAID JOB."
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: Implication - it is Shuddha's "paid job" to
> write
> >>>>> in the
> >>>>> >> >> >> way he
> >>>>> >> >> >> does. See my previous two comments above. Same question
> holds
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> 5.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Re: [Reader-list] Thinking Through Figures on Internal
> >>>>> Displacement
> >>>>> >> >> >> from
> >>>>> >> >> >> Kashmir
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Date: 2 November 2008 12:37:24 PM GMT+05:30
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> (from Pawan Durani)
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> "We dont need him or his lip service. LET HIM SERVE HIS
> >>>>> >> >> >> MASTERS
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> >> we
> >>>>> >> >> >> would continue to counter their agenda..."
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: So providing a detailed set of arguments amounts
> >>>>> >> >> >> to
> >>>>> me
> >>>>> >> >> >> "serving" my "masters". Who are these "masters"? Does Durani
> >>>>> have a
> >>>>> >> >> >> list of
> >>>>> >> >> >> my "masters" or  any proof for the allegation that he is
> >>>>> >> >> >> making
> >>>>> here
> >>>>> >> >> >> that I
> >>>>> >> >> >> write on the list at the bidding of "masters"? If he does
> not
> >>>>> have
> >>>>> >> this
> >>>>> >> >> >> proof, then again, I am constrained to ask whether or not he
> >>>>> should
> >>>>> >> be
> >>>>> >> >> >> expelled from the list for reasons of defamation.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> 6.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Pandits demand 'internally
> >>>>> >> >> >> displaced
> >>>>> >> >> >> persons'
> >>>>> >> >> >> status
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Date: 3 November 2008 1:33:03 PM GMT+05:30
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> (from Pawan Durani)
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> "...At least WE ARE NOT PUPPETS OF CHINESE IDEOLOGY. You
> know
> >>>>> what I
> >>>>> >> >> >> mean."
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: The implication here is that those who do not
> >>>>> >> >> >> agree
> >>>>> with
> >>>>> >> >> >> Pawan's position are the puppets of "Chinese ideology"? What
> >>>>> does
> >>>>> >> >> >> "Chinese
> >>>>> >> >> >> ideology" mean? Does it mean, Confucianism, Taoism, Maoism,
> >>>>> >> Kuomintang
> >>>>> >> >> >> Thought, Dengism, Falun Gong tendencies or an unnatural
> >>>>> preference
> >>>>> >> for
> >>>>> >> >> >> Chinese cuisine?
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> I take it (though, who knows, I could be wrong)  that Pawan
> is
> >>>>> >> >> >> referring to
> >>>>> >> >> >> a willingness to act at the behest of 'Chinese' masters,
> >>>>> >> specifically
> >>>>> >> >> >> those
> >>>>> >> >> >> in positions of power within the Chinese Communist Party and
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> >> >> >> government
> >>>>> >> >> >> of the Peoples Republic of China.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> If so, how would he explain the fact that several of the
> >>>>> >> >> >> people
> >>>>> he
> >>>>> >> >> >> would
> >>>>> >> >> >> identify as his adversaries (me, for instance) have been
> vocal
> >>>>> >> critics
> >>>>> >> >> >> of
> >>>>> >> >> >> Maoism (all varieties), the Chinese Communist Party and the
> >>>>> >> government
> >>>>> >> >> >> of
> >>>>> >> >> >> the Peoples Republic of China on this list. We have in fact
> >>>>> gone on
> >>>>> >> >> >> record
> >>>>> >> >> >> to point out the similarities between the way in which the
> >>>>> >> government
> >>>>> >> >> >> of
> >>>>> >> >> >> mainland China deals with Tibet, and the way in which the
> >>>>> Government
> >>>>> >> of
> >>>>> >> >> >> India deals with the occupation that it undertakes in
> Kashmir.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> In the light of this fact, the above allegation is rendered
> >>>>> >> baseless.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> 7.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Pandits demand 'internally
> >>>>> >> >> >> displaced
> >>>>> >> >> >> persons'
> >>>>> >> >> >> status
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> 3 November 2008 1:42:34 PM GMT+05:30
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> (from Aditya Raj Kaul)
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> "It has become so usual now to SEE THESE PUPPETS SPEAK THEIR
> >>>>> MASTERS
> >>>>> >> >> >> TONE..."
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: Here, Aditya Raj Kaul echoes Pawan Durani's
> >>>>> insinuation
> >>>>> >> >> >> that
> >>>>> >> >> >> anyone who questions them (him and Durani) are "puppets" who
> >>>>> act at
> >>>>> >> the
> >>>>> >> >> >> behest of their masters.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> -----------------
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>  Re: [Reader-list] SIMI Activists found with SAR Geelani CDs
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> 9 November 2008 14:14:12 IST 2008
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> (from Aditya Raj Kaul)
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> "dear SANJAY KAK'S PROPOGANDA AGENT ON PAYROLLS OF YASIN
> MALIK
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> MY COMMENT: None
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> __________________________
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> I am giving Pawan Durani and Aditya Raj Kaul exactly one day
> >>>>> (from
> >>>>> >> the
> >>>>> >> >> >> date
> >>>>> >> >> >> and time of this posting) to furnish detailed,
> substantiatable
> >>>>> proof
> >>>>> >> >> >> for
> >>>>> >> >> >> what I consider to be the allegations in their defamatory
> and
> >>>>> >> >> >> scurrilous
> >>>>> >> >> >> postings aimed at me and others on this list.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> If they are not able to furnish these proofs within this one
> >>>>> day.
> >>>>> >> Or,
> >>>>> >> >> >> if
> >>>>> >> >> >> the proofs they furnish are found to be insubstantial,
> >>>>> motivated and
> >>>>> >> >> >> inadequate to the charges that they make, then I would
> request
> >>>>>  the
> >>>>> >> >> >> list
> >>>>> >> >> >> administrator that both of them be expelled from this list
> >>>>> >> >> >> with
> >>>>> >> >> >> immediate
> >>>>> >> >> >> effect.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Let me clarify one thing in closing. I am and have always
> been
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> >> >> >> favour of
> >>>>> >> >> >> freedom of expression. And I have defended (over the last
> year
> >>>>> and a
> >>>>> >> >> >> half)
> >>>>> >> >> >> the right of Pawan Durani and Aditya Raj Kaul and their
> allies
> >>>>> (in
> >>>>> >> >> >> serious
> >>>>> >> >> >> offline discussions) to continue to torment this list with
> >>>>> their
> >>>>> >> >> >> rubbish
> >>>>> >> >> >> time and time again when demands have been made for his
> >>>>> expulsion on
> >>>>> >> >> >> grounds
> >>>>> >> >> >> of 'hate speech'. I am willing to go the extra mile to give
> >>>>> >> >> >> the
> >>>>> >> benefit
> >>>>> >> >> >> of
> >>>>> >> >> >> the doubt when someone stands accused of 'hate speech'
> >>>>> especially
> >>>>> >> when
> >>>>> >> >> >> I do
> >>>>> >> >> >> not agree with them, because I think that even things said
> in
> >>>>> anger
> >>>>> >> >> >> need a
> >>>>> >> >> >> hearing. And I have gone that extra mile with Pawan Durani,
> >>>>> Aditya
> >>>>> >> Raj
> >>>>> >> >> >> Kaul
> >>>>> >> >> >> and their allies.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> But defamation and libel are offenses, not opinions. The
> harm
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> >> they
> >>>>> >> >> >> can
> >>>>> >> >> >> do is objectively verifiable, not a matter of speculation or
> >>>>> >> >> >> conjecture.
> >>>>> >> >> >> Opinions, no matter how vile they may be can be countered by
> >>>>> >> arguments
> >>>>> >> >> >> and
> >>>>> >> >> >> better formulated opinions. But the lies that attack peoples
> >>>>> >> personal
> >>>>> >> >> >> lives
> >>>>> >> >> >> and conduct, especially when they are uttered on public
> fora,
> >>>>> spread
> >>>>> >> >> >> poison
> >>>>> >> >> >> if they are not dealt with exemplary and immediate severity.
> >>>>> There
> >>>>> >> have
> >>>>> >> >> >> to
> >>>>> >> >> >> be consequences for such conduct, no matter who does it.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> If someone says that I am paid to speak in the way that I do
> >>>>> >> >> >> by
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> >> >> >> foreign
> >>>>> >> >> >> power, then there is no ambiguity in this statement. EIther
> I
> >>>>> am, or
> >>>>> >> I
> >>>>> >> >> >> am
> >>>>> >> >> >> not. I know I am not. The mails that I am referring to above
> >>>>> >> suggests
> >>>>> >> >> >> that I
> >>>>> >> >> >> am, and several others on the list are. And since this is a
> >>>>> >> statement
> >>>>> >> >> >> about
> >>>>> >> >> >> concrete people, not about some abstractions . then the only
> >>>>> way to
> >>>>> >> >> >> settle
> >>>>> >> >> >> this is to demand that the person or persons making the
> >>>>> allegation
> >>>>> >> >> >> proves
> >>>>> >> >> >> what they say, or faces the consequences of bearing false
> >>>>> witness.
> >>>>> >> The
> >>>>> >> >> >> reason I am saying this is because there actually are very
> >>>>> serious
> >>>>> >> >> >> consequences to being thought of as a 'paid' agent of a
> >>>>> 'foreign
> >>>>> >> power'
> >>>>> >> >> >> in
> >>>>> >> >> >> this country, at a time like what we are going through,
> today.
> >>>>> Such
> >>>>> >> >> >> accusations and labels cannot and must not be taken lightly.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Either he is lying, or I am. And an untruth about a person
> is
> >>>>> libel
> >>>>> >> and
> >>>>> >> >> >> cannot by any stretch of imagination be subject to
> protection
> >>>>> on the
> >>>>> >> >> >> grounds
> >>>>> >> >> >> of freedom of expression. This forum would be betraying
> itself
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> >> the
> >>>>> >> >> >> reasons why it was founded if it confuses the license to
> >>>>> >> >> >> defame
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> >> >> >> person or
> >>>>> >> >> >> persons with the freedom of expression.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> I hope I have made myself abundantly clear. I have nothing
> to
> >>>>> >> conceal.
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> regards
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >> Shuddha
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> > _________________________________________
> >>>>> >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >>>>> >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations
> >>>>> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to
> >>>>> >> >> > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith
> >>>>> >> >> > subscribe in the subject header.
> >>>>> >> >> > To unsubscribe:
> >>>>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >>>>> >> >> > List archive: &lt;
> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> _________________________________________
> >>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >>>>> Critiques & Collaborations
> >>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >>>>> subscribe in the subject header.
> >>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >>>>> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe
> > in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>




-- 
Aditya Raj Kaul

Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India
Cell - +91-9873297834

Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/
Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/

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