[Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?
Shuddhabrata Sengupta
shuddha at sarai.net
Fri Oct 24 18:56:52 IST 2008
Pawan,
Unfortunately for you, the reports i cited do not only use the term
'Kashmiri Migrants', they also use, in significant instances, the
very specific term 'Kashmiri Pandits'. And this is not my invention.
I only 'quote' them.
For instance, the report in the Hindu by Naunidhi Kaur, specifically
says -
"While in power, the Shiv Sena had instituted quotas for Kashmiri
Pandits in colleges in Maharashtra." Notice, the term used is
'pandits' not 'migrants'.
Similarly, if you were to follow the link to the report titled "Quota
for Kashmiri Pandits in professional colleges" in the Hindu for
December 24, 2004, you will see that the subject line (title) of the
report uses the term 'Kashmiri Pandits', not 'Kashmiri Migrants'
Morover, were you to go into the report you would read that this
'quota' was announced by the then chief minister of Karnataka State,
Dharam Singh, at a Global Meet on "Future of Kashmiri Pandits"
organised by the All India Kashmiri Samaj, jointly with the Kashmiri
Hindu Samithi, Karnataka. (both of which are Kashmiri Pandit
organizations)
If you read what he said while announcing these quotas, there can be
no denying the fact that the quotas are meant primarily to support
Kashmiri Pandit migrants. He says (as you would read if you had read
the full report)
"It is unfortunate that the original inhabitants of Jammu and
Kashmir, the Kashmiri Pandits, are tragic victims of systematic
oppression and are undergoing forced exile for the last 15 years. It
is the responsibility of the Union Government and society, on
humanitarian grounds, to help them to return to their homes,"
Clearly, he is addressing a Kashmiri Pandit constituency by setting
up an institutional framework to meet their demands.
I do not believe that the question of forced internal displacement or
migration from Kashmir needs to be viewed in a secterian light.
And I am sure that the demands of 'non-Kashmiri Pandit' migrants
from Kashmir, (whether Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist, Chistian) are
as justified as those of exclusively Hindu, 'Kashmiri Pandit'
migrants from Kashmir, if they have migrated due to terror and
intimidation.
There are instances, for example, of Kashmiri Christians (converts
both from Pandit as well as Muslim communities) who have been denied
all help so far by the government of India, or by the government of
the state of Jammu and Kashmir and are studiously ignored by the
Kashmiri Pandit organizations that claim to speak on behalf of
migrants from Kashmir.
See - <http://indianchristians.in/news/content/view/1312/47/> for
further details
Now, it might be interesting to know how many 'non Kashmiri Pandit'
migrants have been able to avail of these quotas in different states.
Do you have any figures (not anecdotes, figures) that you would be
able to share with the group, or will you continue to make what are
simply insinuations. If you have anything more substantial and
verifiable than your personal opinion, it might be useful. If not, I
suggest you consider again who needs to apologise to whom on the list.
I find your selective appropriation of pain sad and unfortunate. It
truly diminishes your capacity to give an account of suffering, and
turns every expression by you and your colleagues of that suffering
into an opportunist exercise. In the end, it is people like you that
make it more, not less, difficult for Kashmiri Pandit communities
(whether displaced, or still living in Kashmir) to lead a dignified
life.
I hope that this dispute will end here, with the clarification of
facts if need be, because I for one do not want to see another
endless round of exchanges on things Kashmiri, to the exclusion of
everything else on this list
Shuddha
On 24-Oct-08, at 2:07 PM, Pawan Durani wrote:
> Dear Shuddha ,
>
> Thank you for your mail . I do nothing but apprecaite the way you
> mix words
> which suit your ideology.
>
> In this case I must say you do a great dis service to SARAI by
> manufacturing
> stories and mixing words.
>
> Please check up the prood you have provided yourself. In this case
> it must
> be noted of how you have changed the subject line while refering to
> "Kashmiri Pandits" while as when anyone would go theorugh your
> "proof" of
> news links , the stories do mention that reservations are there ,
> but it
> also does mention that the reservation is for Kashmiri Migrants.
>
> I know you have a specific knowledge about Kashmir and Kashmiris .
> What i
> did not know that you were unaware that there were many caste and
> groups of
> people who are registered as Migrants from Kashmir. And you must be
> aware of
> how many Kashmiri Muslims take advantage of this whether they are
> genuinely
> victimes of terrorism or not.
>
> Also if at all in some specific course some reservation is
> metioned , that
> does not make a rule to generalise it.
>
> Mr Shuddha , it needs a brave and a person of character to admit
> the wrong.
> Unfortunately both you and Shivam do not fit in any of these two.
>
> Now Shuddha , ypou owe an apology to come clean of what made you
> come to
> support Shivam or is it that you both are supporters of separatist
> Kashmiris and hence common friends.
>
> Some Mausere Bhai .......
>
>
>
> Pawan Durani
>
>
>
>
> On 10/24/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
>>
>> Pawan,
>>
>>
>> In your post to Shivam you said -
>>
>>
>> I am just asking you to clarify whether your details about 5%
>> reservation to Kashmiri pandits in Maharshtra
>>
>> or any state is true.
>>
>>
>> Here are four references, with appropriate citations (below) on
>> the subject
>> of 'quotas' for admission of Kashmiri Pandit migrant candidates to
>> educational institutions in different states (Maharashtra, Madhya
>> Pradesh
>> and Karnataka).
>>
>>
>> I see nothing wrong with them, just as I see nothing wrong with
>> affirmative
>> action initiatives in educational institutions for dalit, tribal
>> and OBC
>> students. Whosoever suffers social disabilities should be entitled to
>> affirmative action in a caring society. I have nothing against
>> Kashmiri
>> Pandit migrants being entitled to affirmative action, for the same
>> reason
>> that i have nothing against Bangladeshi Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist
>> migrants
>> to Delhi or any other part of India being entitled (as I hope they
>> will be
>> one day) to affirmative action.
>>
>>
>> Whosoever suffers due to migration, or social or political
>> reasons, or
>> whosoever's migration occurs because of suffering should be
>> entitled to care
>> and hospitality by the host society. I believe this to be perfectly
>> reasonable and humane.
>>
>>
>> Coming to details, which you demand, you will notice that there is a
>> specific mention of upto 5% (reservation) for Kashmiri Pandit
>> students in
>> non technical courses in Karnataka.
>>
>>
>> I do hope that now you will consider offering the list, and Shivam
>> Vij an
>> apology for suggesting that he has been biased against Kashmiri
>> Pandits
>> while bringing up the subject of 'reservations' and acted as a
>> 'compulsive
>> liar'. Clearly, as the sources below indicate, he has not acted as a
>> compulsive liar. In this case, it turns out that you have a bias
>> against
>> looking for available sources that go against your self imposed
>> image of
>> Kashmiri Pandits being the eternal and only victims in our midst.
>> Their
>> sufferings do not diminish simply because they are not the only
>> ones to
>> suffer. Please avoid making charges of this nature in the future.
>> You do
>> your community and its cause a great deal of disservice by these
>> outbursts.
>> Please check that you are not making a fool of yourself all over
>> again
>> before the next time you hit send after writing a post addressed
>> to this
>> listl. You do this way too often and I really feel bad for you. I
>> would
>> heartily recommend a degree of restraint to you.
>>
>>
>> I also hope that Aditya Raj Kaul, whose political agenda in Delhi
>> University Student politics has featured a heavy accent against
>> the issue of
>> 'reservations' will consider carefully the fact that his argument
>> against
>> reservations can also extend to an argument against reservations for
>> Kashmiri Pandit students.
>>
>>
>> Perhaps, for the sake of consistency, he could either think of
>> making a
>> case against reservations for Kashmiri pandit migrant students within
>> appropriate forums, such as 'Roots in Kashmir', or on the other
>> hand, turn
>> his considerable activist experience in a generally 'pro-reservation'
>> direction, or at least refrain from commenting on the issue of
>> reservations
>> altogether. Either way, it is never too late to change one's mind.
>>
>>
>> Of course, he need not, because continued hypocrisy (which works
>> well in
>> tandem with a loqacious self promotional agenda) is a perfectly valid
>> political option, especially given the currently prevailing political
>> culture in our glorious republic.
>>
>>
>> Shuddha
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>>
>> 1. Reservation for Kashmiri Pandit Migrants in Maharashtra
>> Educational
>> Institutions
>>
>>
>> a) Extract from Report on Internal Displacement.org
>>
>> <
>> http://www.internal-displacement.org/idmc/website/countries.nsf/
>> (httpEnvelopes)/88FD05B74D23F8ED802570B8005A700A?OpenDocument
>>>
>>
>>
>> "Maharashtra Government has made reservation of seats for children of
>> citizens displaced from J&K due to terrorist violence and children of
>> officers belonging to I.A.S., I.P.S. and other officers and staff
>> belonging
>> to military and paramilitary forces transferred to J&K to deal with
>> terrorist activities in the State, in technical institutions in
>> the filed
>> [sic] of Engineering, Pharmacy, Architecture, etc., both at the
>> degree and
>> diploma levels. For this purpose, every diploma/degree level
>> institution
>> (whether Government aided or not) is permitted to create one extra
>> seat for
>> each course over and above the normal capacity of the institution
>> and these
>> seats cannot be allotted to students of any other category.
>> However, no
>> relaxation in eligibility conditions as prescribed by the concerned
>> authority has been made. The domicile restriction has been removed
>> for
>> Kashmiri migrant students. Admission in general educational
>> courses is also
>> being provided subject to normal eligibility conditions being
>> fulfilled."
>>
>>
>> b) Extract on reservations for Kashmiri Pandits in Maharashtra
>> from story
>> in Frontline <
>> http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1923/stories/20021122005301800.htm>
>>
>>
>> The Distress of the Displaced
>>
>> by Naunidhi Kaur
>>
>> in New Delhi
>>
>> Frontline, Volume 19 - Issue 23, November 09 - 22 2002
>>
>>
>> "Now, the Kashmiri Pandit organisations have unabashedly hitched
>> on to the
>> Shiv Sena bandwagon. They remain grateful to Sena chief Bal
>> Thackeray for
>> helping the community out. While in power, the Shiv Sena had
>> instituted
>> quotas for Kashmiri Pandits in colleges in Maharashtra. Pandit
>> organisations
>> in Delhi are particularly sore about the Bharatiya Janata Party
>> not doing
>> anything to revive the registration process for migrant identity
>> cards."
>>
>>
>> 2. Reservation for Kashmiri Pandit Migrants in Madhya Pradesh
>> Educational
>> Institutions
>>
>>
>> Extract from Report on Madhya Pradesh on Internal Displacement.org
>>
>> <
>> http://www.internal-displacement.org/idmc/website/countries.nsf/
>> (httpEnvelopes)/88FD05B74D23F8ED802570B8005A700A?OpenDocument
>>>
>>
>>
>> "One seat has been reserved for Kashmiri migrants in each technical
>> institution viz. Engineering, Polytechnics and [Industrial Training
>> Institutes]. For general education there is no restriction in the
>> State."
>>
>>
>> 3. Reservation for Kashmiri Pandit Migrants in Karnataka Educational
>> Institutions
>>
>>
>> Extract from Report in the Hindu, December 20, 2004
>>
>> <http://www.hindu.com/2004/12/20/stories/2004122003900400.htm>
>>
>>
>> Quota for Kashmiri Pandits in professional colleges
>>
>> The Hindu, Monday, December 20, 2004
>>
>>
>> "BANGALORE, DEC. 19. One seat each in all technical and professional
>> colleges in the State will be reserved for Kashmiri migrant
>> students, the
>> Chief Minister, N. Dharam Singh, announced here on Sunday.
>>
>>
>> In non-technical programmes such as B.A./B.Com./B.Sc./BCA/Computer
>> Science,
>> up to five per cent of seats over and above the approved intake in
>> colleges
>> will be given to wards of Kashmiri migrants, Mr. Singh said.
>>
>>
>> He was speaking at the Global Meet on "Future of Kashmiri Pandits"
>> organised by the All India Kashmiri Samaj, jointly with the
>> Kashmiri Hindu
>> Samithi, Karnataka.
>>
>>
>> The seats in colleges offered to Kashmiris that remain vacant will be
>> filled by other candidates, he added. Mr. Singh said that the
>> Government
>> would give Rs. 25 lakhs towards the construction of Kashmir Bhavan
>> in the
>> city."
>>
>>
>> 4. Reflections on Reservations for Kashmiri Pandits by a Kashmiri
>> Pandit
>>
>>
>> Search Kashmir Blog
>>
>> <http://searchkashmir.blogspot.com/2008/07/quota-and-kashmiri-
>> pandits.html
>>>
>>
>>
>> Quota and Kashmiri Pandits
>>
>>
>> "Why can't we see things for what they are? We got quota in
>> Maharashtra
>> because it had a Hindu government and they tried to cash in on the
>> Hindu
>> vote by making it a 'Hindi cause'. Its all politics, nothing more,
>> we were
>> exploited, made a pawn in the great game and nothing more.
>>
>>
>> They had no love lost for Kashmiri Pandits. Now we have Gujarat
>> government
>> giving quota. I hate Mr. Modi; he is the other side of the same
>> communal
>> coin. We were the poster boys of consequences of Islamic terror.
>> In return,
>> we got 'freebies' and we made the most of our situations. We don't
>> have to
>> be apologetic about it. A lot of good did come out of these freebies.
>> However, at the same time we don't have to be thankful for it.
>> They had
>> their political goals and we had a life to look forward to. I did
>> my B.E.
>> due to quota in Maharashtra but I don't care much about this fact
>> because I
>> know that the system abused me and in return, I abused it back.
>> Quota in our
>> case is nothing but abuse of system. Quality and ability are
>> superseded by
>> need and requirement. How long do we need it? Do we stop when we
>> can afford
>> 3-4 lakhs to get a seat? Do you think we would be able to stop?
>> Won't we
>> think of that 3-4 lakhs as a saving and instead use it for some
>> other so
>> called 'worthy cause' like Weddings etc. How do you think KPs in
>> Jammu could
>> afford to build houses in Jammu? Should we be apologetic for that?
>>
>>
>> Well, I am not. I did what I had to do and I did it my way. If
>> anything, I
>> am concerned about the price we are paying for having a quota
>> system in the
>> first place. The quality always pays the price for quantity. I
>> know I would
>> have performed better had I known that there is no quota to get me
>> through
>> the day. But I am hopelessly optimistic that each would find his
>> own way.
>>
>>
>> Quota isn't a simple issue (nothing related to Kashmir is simple),
>> I still
>> remember a Young K.P guy who came to teach us chemistry in school
>> during
>> 12th. He was a bright fellow but I could see that he was dejected
>> with life.
>> He gave his 12th living in a camp. He himself told me once that he
>> could not
>> be a B.E. because during his time they did not have a quota system
>> and the
>> no. of seats were too few. So he did B.sc and took up teaching.
>> Therefore,
>> quota or rather the absence of quota had an immitigable effect on
>> his life.
>>
>>
>> Bottom-line: Make the most of what life has to offer you. Quota
>> does not
>> necessary mean that you are bad but don't let it ruin your real
>> education.
>> We can spend all our life getting educated. Don't make yourself
>> cannon
>> fodder for greater political causes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Shuddhabrata Sengupta
The Sarai Programme at CSDS
Raqs Media Collective
shuddha at sarai.net
www.sarai.net
www.raqsmediacollective.net
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