[Reader-list] 2-Amarnath Accord - What A.G.Noorani did not tell you !

[Lalit Ambardar]

In case the discussion is still on AG Noorani’s article consisting of baseless allegations that  are only meant to mislead the Kashmiri Muslim masses then  please note the following point wise rebuttal to Noorani’s rhetoric( did not check mail & missed Pawan Durani’s elaborate post while I  had already prepared the note, therefore,  would still like to share) :
1. The mass movement in Jammu was against the Govt. rescind order. Therefore, the accord had to be between the SASS & the govt. only .The Kashmiri Islamists who refuse to recognise the law of the land had rendered themselves redundant. In any case Govt. did not bother to consult people of Jammu either when the land transfer order was revoked under pressure from the Kashmiri Islamists. Jammu & Kashmir continues to be a single entity; therefore, Jammuites as state subjects have equal right on Kashmir province as well. Mischievous role of the Kashmiri Muslim leaders in spreading canards of cultural & demographic invasion to mislead the masses is ignored by Noorani. Why?
2. There is nothing wrong in the using the term ‘exclusive’ unless there is a sinister design behind the objection. The fact is that the land is to be used is for putting up the facilities along the Hindu pilgrimage route.
 Baltal route has been in use for years now. In any case why should any body object to a particular route to the shrine? There are portions along Pahalgam route also which are quite dangerous.
 Where else in the country has a limit been put on the number of pilgrims? Why pick on Amarnath yatra please? In any case the local service providers are always happy with the greater number as obviously it adds to their income. 
3. How does article 19(1) D get violated by merely allotting the land ‘exclusively’ for the yatra? Unless there is a sinister desire to disrupt the yatra. It could be only a sick man’s idea to imagine misuse of yatra for ‘political’ & not ‘religious’ purposes. Politics at those uninhabitable heights??? The idea probably stems from the post Friday congregations in Kashmir where anti India venom is spewed routinely.
4. Arrangements are always made before & not during the event or pilgrimage.
5. Ownership of land doesn’t change. Hence article 370 isn’t violated. Aren’t  Hindus of J& K entitled for equal rights in J&K.?
6. Payment for land use sounds like imposition of “jazia”. Otherwise who pays whom? How are Kashmniri Muslims affected by the waver? It is ironic that when the Kashmiri Islamists were up in the arms against the land transfer in Kashmir, Delhi CM laid the foundation stone of a multi billion dollar Haj House that is to be fitted with most advanced facilities in  Dwarka & no questions are asked.
7. It is preposterous to propose fine against water pollution & against causing damage to the forests on the Hindu pilgrims in a secular India. Where else is this being done in India or abroad? Why is this assumed that Hindus are philistine? Sonia Jabber had earlier in HT also observed sarcastically that the pilgrims preferred “lota & woods”. I wonder what local Muslims do. Do they use mobile lavatories? And what did Sonia Jabber do on the treck? Why pick on Hindu pilgrims please?
 Why not talk about shrinking Dal Lake & Jehlum that is more pertinent. At least Kashmiri Hindus haven’t contributed any waste to the rivers & lakes fro the past almost two decades since their ethnic cleansing in the valley 19 years ago.
8. Why is there silence over the illegality of the rescind order which was issued after the PDP withdrawal. There is no arrangement like ‘minority govt’ in the J&K constitution. 
How can you on the one hand espouse openly the cause of Kashmiri pan Islamic separatists who do not believe in the law of the land & on the other talk of ‘legal efficacy’ as well as ‘moral political legitimacy’??? 
Why cry foul over aid to the   Jammu protestors who fought for a just demand when the Govt. has also been giving aid to the families of terrorists besides giving compensation to the protestors in Kashmir as well. We did not hear AG Noorani scream when SAS Jillani who openly demands merger of Kashmir with Pakistan ( Azadi bara e Islam) was airlifted in a state owned  aircraft from Ranchi jail to Mumbai for treatment a couple of years ago.
LA
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> From: shuddha at sarai.net> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 22:13:51 +0530> To: pawan.durani at gmail.com> CC: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 2-Amarnath Accord - What A.G.Noorani did not tell you !> > Dear Pawan Durani, dear all,> > I am grateful, Mr.Durani, for your post in response to my reply, > and I am equally happy to conduct this discussion under any heading, > be it, 'What A.G.Noorani Did Not Tell You' or 'What Pawan Durani > Does Not Want Us to Talk About'.> > You underestimate my patience in terms of taking this issue through > to its logical conclusion. I may add, that I have no pre-determined > agenda insofar as the end of any discussion is concerned. I believe > in letting a discussion proceed on the terms of a reasonable exchange > of ideas and information, not on name-calling as a means to stone- > wall a discussion and to terrorize its participants, or its audience > or readership, into submission. I invite you to try and do the same > for a change.> > Unfortunately for you, Mr.Durani, the issue is not about whether or > not someone is 'buying' the land in Baltal. The SASB is not 'buying' > the land. Its intent is to acquire the land through a state enforced > fiat, on state enforced terms, at state enforced prices. You cannot > call that 'buying'. You can buy the land if someone is willing to > sell it, if there is a perfect equality in terms between the two > parties involved in the transaction, and if their desires (to buy and > sell) intersect and are co-eval.> > If people are unwilling to 'sell' then, the land cannot be 'bought'. > In any case, here, the legal 'owner' of some of the land, happens to > be an agency of the State Government, and the legal owners of the > land in question happen to be several other private parties. The 800 > kanals in question are a mix of Foret land, State Government owned > land, and private property. (As Sonia Jabbar has pointed out > before). If all the legal owners of the land are prepared to sell the > land to the SASB, or to any other party, there cannot be any > objection. Not even from me. That would be a straightforward and > transparent transaction that is governed by the laws of how things > (especially land) are bought and sold.> > And then your argument that the SASB's intention to get land is > equivalent to the case of any citizen of Jammu or Ladakh buying land > anywhere in J&K would have some basis. I am afraid, in the absence of > sellers, or their consent, there cannot be a buyer, and certainly the > SASB is not a 'buyer'. Since no 'purchase' of land is either > occurring, or contemplated, your argument falls flat on its face.> > I might add, that It is the same issue that rears its head wherever > else land acquisition by force or fraud comes up. In Singur, the > Government of West Bengal, did not 'buy' the land from the people who > owned the land, before passing it on the Tata Group. It 'acquired' it > under the cover of a Land Acquisition Act enacted through the > violence of colonial oppression in 1894. (The same act, incidentally, > is used, by the Indian armed forces to 'acquire' land, including > orchards and fields, in J&K), Today, the West Bengal Government it > is being compelled to rethink its previously unwavering posture on > the matter of land acquisition. I am sure that in J&K, the patently > undemocratic act of 'acquisition' of land for the SASB is bound to > backfire in time on the authorities responsible for this decision. It > has already cost them a great deal, it will cost them more in future.> > I am very well aware of who lives in Baltal. Baltal was a small > impermanent settlement generally used for transhumance by nomadic > shepherds following the banks of the Sindh nullah or the Romashi > rivulet on their way to Dras and beyond from the Kashmir valley > through the Zoji-La Pass that has grown into a small settlement. It > was traditionally never used for the Amarnath Pilgrimage and came > into prominence only when the possibility of helicopter services from > the area to the Amarnath site became feasible. Today, it comes to > life during the 'pilgrimage' season, when many of the local nomadic > Gujjars, and other more sedentary Kashmiris, generally Muslim by > faith, act as guides and pilgrims to the Hindu pilgrims who use the > 'new' Baltal route. They are joined by Tibetan refugee and Ladakhi > seasonal wool and trinket traders, who do brisk business, and > volunteers or 'sevadars' from the plains who assist the pilgrims.> > See - No sign of land row in Baltal by Shujaat Bukhari, in the Hindu > of August 12, 2008, for more details about Baltal.> http://www.thehindu.com/2008/08/12/stories/2008081254781100.htm> (The Hindu's reports on Kashmir, especially those by Praveen Swami, > are items that Mr. Durani and his friends particuarly relish offering > to this list. So, I am sure that he would take this report with > utmost seriousness)> > The trek from Baltal climbs steeply from Domail, (2 kms from the > Baltal base camp) and the area is especially prone to storms and > landslides, which is why there has always been an insistence on > keeping the number of pilgrims low along this route. The 'overall' > figure for pilgrims on the 'Baltal route' recommended by the Nitish > Sengupta committee nowhere exceeds 700 pilgrims per day. This is what > the committee recommended on the basis of what it thought was the > possible infrastructure load that the area could accommodate, and > keeping in mind reasons of health and safety of the pilgrims. Nitish > Sengupta has now emerged as a voice in support of the SASB's current > position of claims on the land, (though he continues to maintain that > the number of pilgrims, and the duration of the pilgrimage need to be > curtailed) but the one-man committee report presented by him is > explicit in terms of the number of pilgrims that the Baltal region > can take.> > Incidentally, the head priest of Dashnami Akhara Mahant Deependra > Giri the traditional custodian of the 'Cchari Mubarak' (the holy > mace) and who initiates the ritual processes that inaugurate the > annual pilgrimage to the Amarnath Shrine, is also of the express view > that the Baltal route should be avoided as it has no scriptural > sanction whatsoever.> > Here is a report quoting the Mahant on his conclusion of the > pilgrimage this year.> > Mahant: Reduce Yatra Period, Avoid Baltal> Kashmir Observer, August 19, 2008> http://www.kashmirobserver.com/index.php? > option=com_content&view=article&id=886:mahant-reduce-yatra-period- > avoid-baltal&catid=50:localnews&Itemid=81> > I quote from this report -> "Mahant, who resigned from the SASB over the issue of extending the > duration of the yatra, had urged pilgrims not to visit the cave > before the 'Vyas Purnima' and prefer the traditional 46-km Pahalgam > route to the shortest 12-km Baltal route for religious reasons."> > Clearly, Pawan Durani will tell us that the statements made in public > fora by Kashmiri Pandits based in the valley and the Mahant of the > Dashnami Akhara cannot be trusted, but we must take whatever he says > on face value. Durani says that people like Sanjay Tickoo are > 'hostage to the terrorists'. Now he will probably say that Mahant > Deependra Giri is also a 'hostage to terrorists' . A statement of > this nature is serious, and unless Tickoo corroborates what Durani > says, must be treated as a malicious attempt at putting words by > Durani into Tickoo's mouth. I could just as easily say that Durani > and the entire Panun Kashmir-Roots in Kashmir archipelago are > 'hostages to state terror' but I do not believe that arguments can be > made, won, or lost by such utterly pointless exchanges. We must argue > on the basis of publicly verifiable statements. And insofar as > publicly verifiable statements are concerned, I am afraid that Durani > & Co.s insistence that they speak on behalf of all Hindus in the > Kashmir valley, or all Hindus in Jammu & Kashmir, or even all Hindus > in India does not hold. It gives us a sense only of their exaggerated > sense of their importance and their arrogance.> > Again, we cannot pretend, like Durani, that the right to acquire land > is equal to the right to movement, Article 370 restricts transactions > in land, not movement. The right to equality operates in situations > when the same end is sought by two parties. If two parties seek > movement, the right to equality would mean that both have the equal > right to move. If two parties seek to purchase land then the right to > equality would mean that both parties have the equal right to > purchase land. You cannot counterpose the conditions attendant to the > right to purchase land as an objection to to the conditions that > apply to the right of movement, and then invoke the right to equality > as a plea in favour of a decision one way or another. The right to > equality applies when the conditions are such that the two entities s > can be seen as capable of brought under considerations in terms of > identity (I mean identity here in a logical sense, as in saying that > an apple from Himachal Pradesh and an apple from Kashmir are both > identically, apples, and must be considered as comparable units of > the same class). To do otherwise is to offer an argument that > confuses its apples for its oranges. And then says, why are apples > not being considered equal to oranges.> > Finally, I find it interesting that Pawan Durani should use the term > 'trespassing'. There is considerable literature on how traditional > commons, became sequesterd and segregated through arbitrary > invocation of 'trespassing', and how the word trespass was used to > effect enclosures upon hitherto existing commons. The violence of the > early history of Capitalism throughout the world, is full of usages > of the word 'trespass'.> > If the people of Kashmir had said to the Amarnath pilgrims - "this > land is 'ours' you cannot pass through it, and if you do, we shall > consider you to be 'trespassers'...' or something to that effect, I > would have been spoken as much against such a declaration, as I do > today against the SASB and its partisans. In fact, the people of > Kashmir, including those who have agitated against the land transfer, > have reiterated time and again that they seek to maintain the highest > standards of hospitality towards who pass through Kashmir on their > way to Amarnath. It is only the protagonists of the SASB, such as our > own Pawan Durani, who have no compunction in insulting that > generosity by invoking the language of trespass.> > And no, I do not believe that the restrictions that limit movement on > the night of 25th or the 26th of January are moral. I hold them to be > deeply immoral. And I also do not believe that there should be > borders, or barbed wire fences along borders. I guess that makes me a > trespasser. But it makes me a trespasser who has the wherewithal to > buttress my words and my beliefs with a sustainable argument. Like > many of those who invoke the law of trespass against the passage of > common people, Pawan Durani has no ethical, or reasoned argument, all > he has behind him is the brutal and immoral might of the Indian state.> > I might be basing my arguments on the basis of reports on what Pawan > Durani characterizes as "Anti-Nationalist and Islamist" newspapers > such as Greater Kashmir and Rising Kashmir. (Incidentally, They are > neither "Anti Nationalist", nor do I see in them any consistently > "Islamist" traces. They are not "anti-nationalist" because they are > clearly sympathetic to one or the other variety of Kashmiri > Nationalism. I am no doubt, an anti-nationalist, because I believe > that all forms of nationalism, including Kashmiri nationalism, are > ultimately detrimental to human beings, but it would be unfair to > confuse me with the sources I am quoting) But whatever be the case, > the instances I am quoting involve quotes from Kashmiri Pandit and > non-Muslim individuals who cannot on any grounds be considered > either "Anit-Nationalist", or "Islamist" (They have not said they are > either, and we cannot accuse people of holding political positions > that they have themselves refrained from upholding). The statements > that they have made, and which I have quoted, can be either > disproven, which would be the case if it were shown that these people > did not say these things, or they can be verified. They cannot be > considered unacceptable merely because the newspaper that reported > them is not of the same Ideological persuasion as Pawan Durani.> > In my last posting, I had offered the possibility of considering > Pawan Durani either as a fool or as a charlatan, based on a my > assessment of his demonstrated ability to hold a sustained argument. > This meant, that in my opinion, he either did not have the > intelligence to hold on to a sustained argument by reasonable means > (hence, fool), or cared not to, and was intent on misleading us with > his malafide postings (hence, charlatan). This reasoning was entirely > based on the form and substance of his argument. I would like to > known on what basis Mr.Durani has the impertinence to call me a 'neo- > convert'. What dose he think I have 'converted' and that too, newly, > to? How can he even think he knows what transpires in my conscience, > or what he calls my 'heart' especially when, not a single argument > offered by me is based on any question of faith, emotion or sentiment.> > I have revised my opinion about Pawan Durani, he is clearly not a > fool. He is using what Tapas Ray has referred to in his recent post > as - 'human tragedies' - for all that they are worth in order to > buttress a morally, ethically, rationally weak position, with enough > skill not to warrant being mistaken for a fool. That leaves only one > possibility.> > regards> > Shuddha> > > Dear Shuddha,> > It is very obvious of what way you want the discussion to end up. > > Let me> > just share with readers some example.> >> > 1. Instead of replying to my post , Mr Shuddha changes the subject to> > :Noorani Reads the fine print on Amarnath Accord", while as the > > original> > subject line was "What A.G.Noorani did not tell you".This is the first> > impression to understand of how fair Shuddha would have been to > > understand> > my write up, and Shuddha lived upto his reputation for > > that ....perfectly.> >> > 2.When I say that every state subject has an equal right to every > > inch of> > land , that does not mean to buy a piece of land in Srinagar a > > Ladakhi would> > have to go to Assembly to get an order passed. Mr Shuddhas > > understanding of> > the sentence is very poor and childish.> >> > 3.Shuddha is not aware of who lives in Baltal ? His understanding > > of the> > area is based on his passionate reading of anti nationalist and > > Islamist> > newspaper like Greater Kashmir and Rising Kashmir. Incidentally rising> > Kashmir was inaugurated by Noorani himself. What a coincidence.> >> > 4.Shuddha again ignores the report of chief Wildlife warden on > > allotment of> > land and like a "parrot" repeats the Hurriyat language. And if this > > is how> > Shuddha loves to debate without even acknowledging the report of > > those who> > are in-charge of ecology and wildlife in the Baltal area , I wonder > > no one> > would be able to satisfy his brain,which seems to be locked for any> > reasoning.> >> > 5. What Nitish Sen Gupta had wanted on priority is that on high > > grounds the> > number of pilgrims should be restricted to 20000.> >> > 6. Shuddha quotes that KPSS or Sanjay Tikoo wanted his > > participation. What> > Shuddha does not share that Sanjay Tikoo, who happens to be a close > > friend,> > is no less a hostage to the separatists. He has to tow their line. > > I would> > not discuss this issue in detail as this may cause harm to my already> > scared community members in Kashmir. Issue like this needs a > > broader vision> > which morons like Shuddha and Gautam Navlakha can not understand.> >> > 7. When I was discussing the fundamental right , I wrote " The > > right to> > Equality " which Shuddha very cunningly altered to "Fundamental > > right to> > Movement" ... It was so clever of him to change the whole context > > and to> > ignore the expected discussion of how the 100 crore citizens of > > India are> > being denied the right to be equal as against the state subjects of > > J&K> > state. And let me remind to Mr Shuddha that neither is whole of J&K > > a tribal> > place nor a forest.> >> > 8. Shuddha gives a very childish and immature rhetoric statement > > that the> > Amarnath accord violate the fundamental right to movement > > guaranteed under> > Article 19 (A) of the Indian Constitution. Does that mean> > that trespassing is no word to exist. Does that mean that I can > > stroll on> > India gate lawns on night between 25th and 26th January. Does that > > mean I> > can stand right next to barbed wire fence on the border? Does that > > mean I> > can ride my bicycle on the runway of an airport. Shuddha has no > > understand> > of where the violation applies and where not ?> >> > 9.Mr Shuddha may call me a fool or a charlatan. It does not matter > > to me . I> > know where his heart lies and what the Neo convert believes in.> >> > Pawan Durani> > _________________________________________> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> > Critiques & Collaborations> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header.> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
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