[Reader-list] Some Points from discussions

[Vivek Narayanan]

Kshemendra,

I understand from your comments below that you think that any possible 
"post-national" solution to the question of Kashmir is hogwash, dreamy, 
silly, unthinkable-- in the same way that the idea of a nation-state 
with a democratic polity was completely unthinkable a few hundred years 
ago?  After all, it is not the specifics of one plan or another that you 
are objecting to, it is the very idea itself, correct?

Fine-- but my question is, what is your solution?  Do you think 
violently assertive forcible Indian military occupation, objected to by 
the majority of the Kashmiri population, with all kinds of ripple 
effects including (possibly) the steadily increasing militancy and 
radicalisation of the population, the increasing bitterness that reduces 
the chances of reconcilliation and peace day by day, and only 
increasingly so, should and can continue until kingdom come?  Or do you 
have any other ideas and possibilities in mind?

I ask this as an earnest question, out of curiousity, not as a polemical 
point.

Vivek

Kshmendra Kaul wrote:
> Dear Jeebesh
>  
> You are overstepping yourself. We are still on Point 1 of  your "possible ways" arising from your "some friends were talking about different way of thinking about Kashmir."
>  
> "Referendum" was not in the menu of "possible ways" you floated. Let us get back to your "Demilitarized Zone"
>  
> You say that a "wide area" has to be De-militarized. That is a meaningless generality. Specify that "wide area" if you can. You will not be able to do it if you have not thought over the "possible ways" you have floated. Do some thinking first.
>  
> You suggest a "popular suffrage" to mark the "border". Over what "area" do you propose that this "popular suffrage" will take place? In that "area" who will participate?
>  
> Obviously the "suffrage" cannot take place specifically in any proposed "wide area" on "both sides of  the border" which you seek to De-militarize because the very purpose of the "suffrage" is to demarcate precisely that "wide area".
>  
> Kshmendra
>  
>
>
> --- On Tue, 9/16/08, Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net> wrote:
>
> From: Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Some Points from discussions
> To: "Sarai Reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 4:14 PM
>
> Another Floater :)
>
> For a serious referendum to happen a very wide area has to be  
> demilitarized on both side of the present border. There can be a  
> popular suffrage to mark the border and hopefully something better  
> than the present situation may emerge.
>
> But my floater was not so much about the real-politic of border  
> making. It was about thinking a side ways to get out of this  
> "bleeding" politics and use all the various available international  
> institutions and instruments to arrive at some new arrangements.
>
> warmly
> Jeebesh
>
>
> On 16-Sep-08, at 3:38 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote:
>
>   
>> Dear Jeebesh
>>
>>
>>
>> The "Demilitarized Zone" is your proposal and not mine. You
>>     
> should  
>   
>> be the one to specify its borders. Unless, as is more than likely  
>> and is apparent, you have done very little thinking over the idea  
>> you have floated.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kshmendra
>>
>> --- On Tue, 9/16/08, Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net> wrote:
>>
>> From: Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Some Points from discussions
>> To: "Sarai Reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 1:15 PM
>>
>> On 15-Sep-08, at 11:33 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> But I think a BD led UN peacekeeping force in Kashmir would not fly.
>>>       
>> Why not? :) It will be South Asia in a complex entangle.
>>
>> And Kshmendra, borders are always a contested lines. You could suggest
>> what it could be.
>>
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>>     
>
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>   
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