[Reader-list] The updated list of killings by the firing of armedforces

Shuddhabrata Sengupta shuddha at sarai.net
Sat Sep 20 15:46:13 IST 2008 

Dear Pawan,

The people who sent Col.Jojan Thomas to die in Kashmir  (his masters  
in Delhi) also claim that they enjoy the hospitality and support of  
the people of Kashmir. They always maintain that there is no  
occupation, that the Indian army is in Kashmir only because the  
people of Kashmir want them there. So, everyone seems to claim the  
support and hospitality of the 'crowds' of Kashmir. Its just that no  
one has as yet thought it fit to ask these 'crowds' quite how far  
they want to stretch their hospitality.

Since the people of Kashmir have been 'hospitable' to around 700,000  
Indian soldier 'guests' for around two decades, I suppose they also  
extend their hospitality. from time to time, to a few 'other' guests.  
Both kinds of 'hospitality' seem to me to be extracted on gunpoint.

I grieve for Col Thomas as much as I grieve for every Indian soldier,  
(some of whom kill themselves because they cannot bear being made to  
do the things that they are made to do in Kashmir) as much as I  
grieve for every dead and tortured insurgent (of whatever nationality).

A death is never an occasion for joy. But most of all I grieve for  
the 'hospitable' people of Kashmir, who dig the graves, watch the  
coffins, bear the brunt of every pain, no matter who dies. The dead  
in Kashmir are also their guests, and these guests will haunt them  
for a very long time. I hope that one day, the ghosts, and their  
hosts, can learn to exist in each other's shadow without fear or pain.

regards,

Shuddha


On 20-Sep-08, at 3:32 PM, Pawan Durani wrote:

> Dear Shuddha,
> Do you mean to say that the people who killed Col Thomas do not  
> enjoy the
> hospitality and support of the "crowds" of Kashmir ?
>
> Pawan
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 2:10 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta  
> <shuddha at sarai.net>wrote:
>
>> Pawan,
>>
>>
>> I don't treat news of death as reasons for laughter, no matter who  
>> dies.
>>
>>
>> The Col. Thomas who died in Kashmir did not die at the hands of  
>> the crowds
>> on the streets of Kashmir. He died while on an operation, in  
>> combat, exactly
>> as  an insurgent dies in combat, while on an  operation. As one  
>> armed man
>> taken out by other armed men.
>>
>>
>> See -
>>
>> http://www.hindu.com/2008/08/24/stories/2008082457840100.htm
>>
>>
>> The report says - "Col. Thomas was killed as he led a quick  
>> reaction team
>> from 45 Rashtriya Rifles in the dense forests of Macchal sector,  
>> near the
>> Line of Control. His team shot down six militants and he was one  
>> of the four
>> Indian soldiers who were killed in the battle."
>>
>>
>> I regret all such deaths, whether they be of Col. Jojan Thomas, or  
>> Mohan
>> Chand Sharma, or of a named or nameless insurgent, and consider  
>> them to be
>> lives wasted in a senseless war. The only way to stop deaths like  
>> these is
>> to stop this war. I want this war to end.
>>
>>
>> The two policemen who died in Jammu happened to be lynched by the  
>> crowds on
>> the streets of Jammu. They were not killed by militants in dense  
>> forests.
>> The mob killed because it had a sense that it could act with  
>> impunity. They
>> were not acting in self defence either. In this case, the mob was not
>> retaliating for violence inflicted upon it.
>>
>>
>> See -
>> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/PoliticsNation/ 
>> Cops_lynched_rail_track_uprooted_in_Jammu/articleshow/3331088.cms
>>
>>
>> The report says - "Mobs in Jammu lynched two cops to death and  
>> uprooted a
>> long stretch of the Jammu-Pathankote railway track."
>>
>>
>> One can compare militants with militants and crowds of protestors,  
>> with
>> crowds of protestors
>>
>>
>> And when you do, you realize (if you are not wearing the kind of   
>> blinkers
>> that make you think of some deaths as more important than others) the
>> important difference that I was trying to point out between two  
>> kinds of
>> 'peaceful protestors', and the responses to them by the state in  
>> Jammu, and
>> in Kashmir.
>>
>>
>> Try and cultivate a less vicious sense of humour.
>>
>>
>> Shuddha
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20-Sep-08, at 12:03 PM, Pawan Durani wrote:
>>
>> lol......funniest post ever.
>>
>> How soon we have forgotten Col. Thomas who was killed in Kashmir.  
>> and then
>>
>> the statement  People in Kashmir threw stones, like angry crowds do
>>
>> everywhere in the world.
>>
>>
>> lol........
>>
>>
>> What an Idea Sirrr Jee.
>>
>>
>> Pawan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 1:53 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta  
>> <shuddha at sarai.net
>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear Radhika,
>>
>>
>> Thank you for your observations on Khurram's posting.
>>
>>
>> Well, in this case some  "protesters who claim to be peaceful,
>>
>> holding sticks, guns and resort to arson and riot" were "garlanded."
>>
>> I am referring to the ones in Jammu. You will recall, that not a
>>
>> single policeman or soldier or paramilitary personnel were killed in
>>
>> Kashmir. But two policemen did die in Jammu, and some truck drivers
>>
>> assaulted by the 'peaceful' protestors in Jammu also succmbed, I
>>
>> suppose in your opinion, "peacefully"  from their injuries. Gujjar
>>
>> huts were burnt in acts of "peaceful" arson. The crowds in Kashmir
>>
>> who were fired upon, 50 of whom were killed at the last count, did
>>
>> not bear weapons. We all saw the television pictures. They threw
>>
>> stones, like angry crowds do everywhere in the world. But they did
>>
>> not kill policemen.
>>
>>
>> The government did not garland these protestors, it clamped
>>
>> indefinite curfews and shot at them to kill. One the other hand it
>>
>> did garland the protestors on the other side of the Banihal pass. it
>>
>> held some leaders under the Public Safety Act, and then released
>>
>> them. It counducted 'negotiations' with the leaders of the peaceful
>>
>> protests in Jammu and garlanded them with a sham 'accord'. All these
>>
>> prove that if you happen to belong to the right place, sport the
>>
>> right kind of name, then even if your 'peaceful' protest turns
>>
>> occasionally violent, you can still be 'garlanded' as you (in this
>>
>> case) rightly point out.
>>
>>
>> After all, we live in the country whose government called its nuclear
>>
>> weapons tests in 1974, 'peaceful implosions'.
>>
>>
>> In the novel, '1984' George Orwell, whom I have referred to in an
>>
>> earlier posting, wrote about how in the language perfected by
>>
>> fictional regime that he was decribing, (newspeak) 'PEACE' was 'WAR'.
>>
>>
>> are you not indulging in a little modest 'newspeak' Radhika, surely,
>>
>> you can do better than that?
>>
>>
>> warm regards
>>
>>
>> Shuddha
>>
>>
>> On 18-Sep-08, at 1:46 PM, radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote:
>>
>> Khurram,
>>
>>
>>  your post makes me wonder, whether the protesters who claim to be
>>
>> peaceful, holding sticks, guns and resort to arson and riot should be
>>
>> garlanded. ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________
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>>
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>>
>> Critiques & Collaborations
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>>
>> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
>>
>> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
>>
>> Raqs Media Collective
>>
>> shuddha at sarai.net
>>
>> www.sarai.net
>>
>> www.raqsmediacollective.net
>>
>>
>>
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