[Reader-list] Election Forecast

Sun Jun 14 15:46:46 IST 2009

Dear Rashneek

Thanks for pointing it out.

I worded myself poorly and it certainly appears as if it is my judgement/suggestion. It is amongst the many viewpoints expressed on the issue of "Jaziya". 

Digressing ...... "Zakaat" is not voluntary but mandatory in an Islamic system. 

The problem faced by Islamic countries is that if they strictly follow the Islamic traditions and precepts, where will they get the Revenues for running the country.

In earlier times these Revenues came from "Protection", "Bounties", "Gifts" etc. Which is not practicable now. "Zakaat" was meant to be only for servicing the needs of the poor to be collected and distributed by the State.

That is why, on the issue of "Zakaat", there are viewpoints that the one-fortieth of wealth (and other norms for Trade, Farm-Produce, Gold-Ownership) are only advisories from "traditions" and can be altered as per the requirements of the country.  This widening of the umbrella of "Zakaat" is to avoid using a system that can be seen as being "Taxation" which is considered to be Un-Islamic.

You can see the natural progression of that idea to "Jaziya" for Non-Muslims since asking for "Zakaat" from them might be the sanctifying of their status as "Dhimmis"

Of course, the resource rich (Oil, Gas) Islamic countries do not have to contend with "Revenues" problems. 

Kshmendra

--- On Sun, 6/14/09, rashneek kher <rashneek at gmail.com> wrote:

From: rashneek kher <rashneek at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Election Forecast
To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: "S. Jabbar" <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com>, "Sarai" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 10:34 AM

Dear Kshmendra,

While I may tend to agree with your history of Jaziya,your comment that"In current times, "Jaziya paid by Non-Muslims" could perhaps best be explained as being equivalent to "Zakaat paid by Muslims"

makes me wonder
While Zakat is a voluntary exercise Jaziya is an imposed one.Zakat is paid as per ones capacity while Jaziya is fixed and has to be paid as a tax by non-muslims as protection money.Your comparision,I am afraid is incorrect.

Best Regards

Rashneek

On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

There are some practices that pre-date Islam (in terms of Quran-Mohammad) but found themselves 'sanctified' through the Quran and/or the reported words/practices of Mohammad. "Jaziya" is one such Practice/Law.

There are many explanations and interpretations given for "Jaziya" with respect to 'Non-Muslim individuals' and 'entities conquered through war or threatened with war'.

In current times, "Jaziya paid by Non-Muslims" could perhaps best be explained as being equivalent to "Zakaat paid by Muslims"

Kshmendra  

--- On Fri, 6/12/09, S. Jabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:

From: S. Jabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Election Forecast
To: "Vedavati Jogi" <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>, "Rakesh Iyer" <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
Cc: "Sarai" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 2:21 PM

The people in the NWFP who imposed a tax on non-Muslims in the name of Islam
are brigands.  They are also known collectively as the Taliban, a feared
entity who have wreaked greater havoc on the lives of Muslims in the area.

Jaziya is commonly and mistakenly seen as an inherent Islamic practice, a
fundamental tenet of Islam, where in fact the Arabs simply continued the
practice of levying a poll tax on subject races in their newly conquered
territories. 

The practice of poll tax was instituted by the Sassanid Empire, which ruled
a vast swathe of land which included the Caucasus, Iraq, southern Central
Asia, Iran and Afghanistan from 205 CE for 400 years, much before the birth
of Islam. 

The Sassanids, incidentally, were Zoroastrian, ancestors of the people we
know as Parsis. 

> From: Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:25:13 +0530 (IST)
> To: Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
> Cc: <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Election Forecast
>
> after reading secular mails on this readers list i am thoroughly convinced
> that very soon india will be a muslim country because muslims are going to
> outnumber hindus by 2050 and hindus will have to pay jizia (the way sikhs in
> pakistan are paying)

( unfortunately or fortunately )muslims don't
> descriminate between seculars and others
for them hindus are hindus and not
> brahmins/dalits/marathas/seculars/communals etc.
so all of us - you as well
> as me will have to pay jizia.

be mentally ( and financially also)
> prepared.

vedavati

--- On Mon, 18/5/09, Rakesh Iyer
> <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Rakesh Iyer
> <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Election Forecast
To:
> "anupam chakravartty" <c.anupam at gmail.com>
Cc: "sarai list"
> <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Monday, 18 May, 2009, 5:20 PM

Dear
> Vedavati

Before pointing fingers at others, look at oneself. Considering the
> demand
of Hindus like you, if BJP were to come to power (either as coalition
> or on
their own), the sword would be hanging on the head of the minorities as
> to
when their women would be raped, their children would be left
> parent-less
and when their lives would be destroyed. It's certainly good that
> UPA has
come to power, and now we have one less issue to focus upon (which
> is
minority rights), at least upto a certain extent.

When the NDA was in
> power, we had to focus on jokers like Praveen Togadia,
Ashok Singhal, Acharya
> Dharmendra, some more useless sadhus and mahants, and
also Modi mania.
> Unnecessarily at some point of time or other, there would
be some nonsense
> shilanyas and some daan or the other. At least under the
UPA, such useless
> antics are out. While Kandhamal, Karnataka and Mangalore
indeed have taken
> place, at least a widespread pogrom has not taken place.

And as for
> Bangladesh and Pakistan, thanks to Hindus like you, I can say
comfortably that
> if people like you were to come to power (in any party or
form), we would
> become a Hindu rashtra where our minorities would be living
worse than second
> class citizens. And you are not a secular anyway, and you
are a Hindu.

India
> is secular not because Hindus are in majority. India is secular
because
> majority of the people live as a secular society does (irrespective
of whether
> they believe in secularism). They don't want conflicts for
umpteen no. of
> reasons. And they can see through the political game of our
Hindutva and
> fundamentalist Islamic friends.

As for Muslim nations which are secular, go
> to Turkey, Indonesia and
Malaysia.

Regards

Rakesh

PS: I wonder where our
> Modi bhai is, now that results are out for the
general election. Everybody is
> talking about Advani not talking to media.
Seems Modi is another version of
> Advani. When things are going against him,
he is the first one (like Advani)
> to hide and run away. And he is supposedly
the 'next PM' candidate of BJP in
> 2014.

Jaisa Guru, waisa chela........jai
> ho!!
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-- 
Rashneek Kher
http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com
http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com