[Reader-list] The Epitaph of a Mind: Vir Sanghvi

[taraprakash]

Whether there are secular forces in Pakistan or not, you should ask the 
extremist forces in that country. And they will be able to show you a black 
list of the "bad Muslims" who don't think like extremists. As recently as 
last week a member in the house of representatives raised the issue of 
rising attacks on Hindus in Sind. Still if you think the Indian Hindus 
should stand in defence of Pakistani Hindus, you should let Indian Muslims 
in defence of Pakistani Muslims and visa versa.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Vedavati Jogi" <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
To: <reader-list at sarai.net>
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Epitaph of a Mind: Vir Sanghvi


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> we should not burn 100 muslims in india
> but
> 1) we should not let muslims burn hindus in india either
> examples- kashmir and godhra and many more.
>
> 2) we should not hesitate to stand by our hindu brothers in pakistan and 
> bangladesh. because they don't have any secular -human rights brigade in 
> these countries.
>
> 'eye for eye will make the whole world blind' -mahatma had said.
> but if we don't defend ourselves there are chances, this enemy will make 
> us totally blind.
> rather we have already experienced it in 1947 unfortunately we have not 
> learnt any lesson from the history.
>
> vedavati
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 26/3/09, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Epitaph of a Mind: Vir Sanghvi
> To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com
> Cc: "Vedavati Jogi" <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>, "sarai list" 
> <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Thursday, 26 March, 2009, 8:17 PM
>
>
> Dear all
>
> First of all I am very happy that such an article has been put up. Having 
> been a consistent reader of Vir Sanghvi's column in Hindustan Times over 
> the past few years, I must say that he has stopped any kind of 
> researching, which I consider an essential part in journalism. I believe 
> that if research into one area has stopped, then it should be started into 
> some other area. After reading Sanghvi's articles, I realize he goes on 
> speaking about the same things in a merry-go-round.
>
> As far as Sanghvi's article goes, I agree with the above mentioned points 
> that it is quite far from reality. Considering that about 35% of the 
> Muslim population in the nation (based on Census and obtained from Sachar 
> Committee's report), lives in cities, and most of this population lives in 
> ghettoes (old city areas generally), and is poor, one would have to see 
> the way the state has abandoned itself from its responsibilites in these 
> areas. Looking at my own city Bhopal, I can say that not only has the 
> administrative work shifted to new city buildings for many purposes, 
> what's more, the old city suffers many problems related to water, sewage 
> and other kinds handled generally by the municipal corporation, on a daily 
> basis, much more than what the new city (read Hindu-dominated areas), 
> face.
>
> The economic situation of Muslims is already very poor, and most Muslim 
> ghettoes in India also don't have proper education facilities (or even 
> private based schools), to educate their children. Hence, they have to 
> send their children to madrassas. And then, our Vedavati jee and their 
> folk go hammer and tongs at these madrassas for giving 'terrorist 
> education' to them, when in the first place they should talk about the 
> lack of education facilities given to them.
>
> In India, we keep on asking for one ban after the other. When 'Water' was 
> supposed to be made in Varanasi by Deepa Mehta, the RSS goons stopped it 
> and created violence. When the 'revenge' had to be taken for Gujarat, the 
> very same organizations indulged in mass-rapes of women, something unheard 
> of even in pre-1992 Gujarat riots by and large. Infact, even districts 
> unaffected in any riot since independence witnessed massive violence. And 
> then our great Modi has the courage to say this: 'Not more than 100 died 
> in the violence, and that too due to police firing'. Later on, he said 
> there was no violence at all.
>
> If there was no violence, how come there was the need for police firing??
>
> Hence Sanghvi was definitely wrong in that article.
>
> Inspite of this, I can say that India is on a slightly better footing 
> while treating its minorities in practice, for at least they are 
> considered as equal with the majority community (read Hindus), and even 
> cases in post-Godhra can be re-investigated again and again, while whether 
> I can say the same for Pakistan or not, is something I am not sure of. 
> While constitutionally Pakistan is an Islamic republic, we are a 'secular, 
> socialist, democratic republic', and through constant practice of 
> democracy, can at least get our voice heard. (Muslims did in the election 
> mandate of 2004, critically in UP and Bihar).
>
> The second part is with respect to this harsh truth.
>
> I don't feel comparisons are the way to find out whether we are doing the 
> right thing or not. And if any comparison is to be made, let us do an 
> intra-country comparison to find out whether we have done enough for our 
> minorities, for our scheduled caste brothers, for the scheduled tribes, 
> for the women, for the children, for the unemployed, and for the poor, and 
> if yes, upto what extent did they benefit from this, across states, across 
> districts, and across villages in a district too.
>
> Instead, we have set Pakistan as a benchmark in many cases. Do we too wish 
> to become a Hindu Pakistan? Is that what we want? Let me ask Vedavati jee 
> here and others as well. If in Bangladesh tomorrow 100 Hindus are burnt, 
> should we respond by burning 100 Muslims here? Tell me this. I think these 
> questions are imperative, and in times of elections, should be asked by 
> the media to the BJP leaders.
>
> I think as a state, we should set up benchmarks based on principle of 
> reason and justice. And that's where we should move towards, rather than 
> surpassing China in terms of power, or becoming a Hindu version of 
> Pakistan, and portraying our 'mardangi' by nuking them or by killing our 
> Muslims. I don't think any Gujarati Hindu who went about raping women 
> post-Godhra ever became a 'mard' by doing so in the name of Lord Ram or 
> revenge, for very souls of those died in Godhra and Lord Ram himself, must 
> be ashamed of what happened in their name.
>
> But I think this question should be solved for once and for all as well 
> here.
>
> How many people (Indian non-Muslims) don't trust Indian Muslims? And why?
>
> This is the question we need to ask. We have avoided this for long, and 
> have been giving explanations like 'our culture is composite', 'we are all 
> human beings', 'we are all the same' and all this. The fact is that Modi 
> and his folk won't listen to all this, so now we need to question them 
> instead of answering them. Let these folk also do some answering to their 
> part, because our reasons would never satisfy them unless they are forced 
> to think rationally too.
>
> The other thing I feel, is that these rational discourses may still not be 
> useful. We have been discussing about how our culture is composite, and 
> this and that? May be what is needed now is conversation and communication 
> between people.
>
> Hence, we need to get a public common education system being the same for 
> all, which should be mandatory and compulsory for all. No discrimination 
> must be allowed here. Moreover, colleges should not be based anymore on 
> minority or majority basis, and instead reservations must be provided (the 
> guidelines of which can be discussed certainly). Moreover, we also need to 
> have public forums where such issues can be discussed. And certainly, 
> leaders like Modi and Advani must be questioned on the issues of mistrust 
> they have with Muslims of India, to expose them and their party (or set of 
> parties), on the fallacies on which they live.
>
> Regards
>
> Rakesh
>
>
>
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