[Reader-list] [SPAM detected Spam-Test: True ; 5.6 / 5.0] RE: Body scanning violation of Sharia

Thu Feb 18 12:37:53 IST 2010

Dear Javed/Junaid,

Separatists does not want to fight election, since they were knowing they
will be defeated. Since bearing few (they are minor but with violence they
seems bigger, of course with the help Pakistan and terrorist groups situated
their) most of them are willing to be with India. Recent 60% voting proved
this. Those 40% who have not voted, I am sure at least 20% must be in the
favor to remain with India only. So, if we add 15 and not 20 then also about
75% of the opinion to remain with India. If you add Kashmiri pandit this
will be much more. I am giving you data of Kashmiri pandit massacre carried
earlier to throw them out from Kashmir as under. 

Details of Kashmiri pandit murder.

DATE                     DETAILS                                NO. OF
DEATHS

21/03/1997      Sangrampora massacre                    7

15/06/1997      Udhampur massacre                         3

26/01/1998      Vandhana massacre                           23

05/02/2000      Anantnag massacre                            2

13/07/2002      Kasimnagar massacre                        24

23/03/2003      Nandimarg massacre                         25

TOTAL
84

After this massacre, much large numbers of pandit left Kashmir gradually
their home land with painful mind. 

We are engaged in dialogue since long and started business, communication,
train/bus route in good faith, what happened? Nothing, terrorist attack
occurred frequently. Since, Pak wants ultimate solution as Kashmir back and
this is what they want as final solution. What's your opinion? Is it
possible to hand over entire J&K? not at all. This is what biggest hindrance
to carry out the dialogue. Since almost 15 years we are conducting dialogue
in good faith even after parliament attack also we initiated dialogue after
some time. We have bow down after terrorists attack many times earlier. This
time also as usual this is going to happen only. Its more than enough now
and time to take some tough stand.

Mr. Junaid your suggestion on Kashmir is irrelevant. (1) To remove military
and police force. To remove local police force from any part of the world if
you ask then no one will agree. Since looking to human nature, crime less
society is not possible. At the border of the nation, every country puts
their military watch and nothing wrong in it. Why military required to
deploy at earlier stage, when infiltration and terrorism started. Is pak
govt. assure to stop infiltration and show will and act accordingly for
infiltration from their side for at least even 6 months then one can remove
military fully. To put military in the civilian area is costly affair and
nobody wants to put it willingly. Did find it in any part of India except
few where terrorist and maoist attack is possible. (2) "Remove draconian
law" but draconian law is for draconian people like terrorist who kill
innocent people. "Security agencies involved in HR abuses", HR for whom
terrorist? Who kill human only for no reason. I find pity for your thought.
(3) Who will decide that they are political prisoner? Please note that
congress does not show that will to fight terrorism and taking soft stand
towards terrorism comparatively. So, there is no question to keep them in
prison without reason in congress rule. (4) Is there any law to prevent
Kashmiri to express their views peacefully? I don't think so. (5) I agree
your fifth point can be possible, if it is there. But, if terrorism and
infiltration stops, it will not require any more. So, the root is terrorism
and infiltration Mr. junaid. Control this evil, everything will be settled.

Actually it's time now for some tough stand without bowing down from
international pressure. May be not this time, but in near future it is going
to happen. Since pak never behaves like a gentle country. However, pak is
also suffering now with partial terrorism. (Meri billi muzko maun). If pak
stop sponsoring terror/infiltration in India then she will get love of whole
Indian people and continent. In that case though both of them remain
separate country, but will become super power even beating US/China. In that
case pak will become self sufficient without US aid. Let us pray to fulfill
this dream.

Thanks

Bipin

-----Original Message-----

From: Javed [mailto:javedmasoo at gmail.com] 

Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:01 PM

To: Bipin; sarai list

Subject: Re: [SPAM detected Spam-Test: True ; 5.6 / 5.0] RE: [Reader-list]
Body scanning violation of Sharia

Dear Bipin

I posted so many links since you mentioned that the Deoband never

issues fatwas against terrorism. And yes, in most cases I don't agree

with their fatwas (especially those against liberal issues such as

Tasleema) and I also believe that their fatwas against terrorism will

have very little or almost no affect on the actual situation. Even

many Pakistani madrasas issue out general fatwas against terrorism all

the time. I doubt if these madrasas or their appeals can reduce

terrorism today. Its a complex problem which has been much worsened by

the west's "war against terrorism". The only way out is to have a

dialogue with the people who are involved in terrorism. Bring them to

the table and let us hear what they have to say. There is no other

solution.

Javed

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Bipin <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:

> Dear Javed,

> 

> Thanks for your reply and mentioning so many links against fatwa. Glad to

> know that you are not endorsing their fatwa. But, with your posting of
fatwa

> details, you have not mentioned your views or comments and so understood

> that you agreed to it.

> 

> All the links of fatwa you have posted came after 26/11 attack and that
too

> they condemned terrorism/violence of any kind in general, but they have
not

> issued fatwa against terrorists or terrorists group specifically. This is

> what actually required today to pressurize them. They are issuing fatwa

> specifically in case of Taslima Nasrin and Salman Rushdi, where they have

> not at all involved in any kind of violence but expressing their views in

> book. Even congress could not give shelter to Taslima fearing to lose
their

> Muslim votes. Taslima thought that she will get shelter in secular country

> like India, but she proved wrong and so our secularism is also proved
wrong.

> Our secularism relates to minority only. This is height of vote bank

> politics and minor appeasement. I am sorry to write such hard language,
but

> truth is always bitter and hard.

> 

> Please note that I am not against any community/minority, but where we
stay,

> we have to faithful with our country with full heart. Whoever, trying to

> harm the country must be condemned with full-heart, whoever it may be

> majority or minority. The organization like Deoband and others should

> pressurize their few brothers to stop support to outside terrorists group,

> may be by way of sleeper cell or active cell, since it's much more chances

> that they will listen and believe them. If they does this much then also

> terrorism can be controlled heavily in India and country will be highly

> oblige/respect them.

> 

> Thanks

> Bipin

> 

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Javed [mailto:javedmasoo at gmail.com]

> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:23 PM

> To: Bipin

> Cc: sarai-list

> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia

> 

> Dear Bipin

> Although I am neither their official (or unofficial) spokesperson nor

> do I endorse their fatwas, but below is a list of links where you can

> find fatwas issued by the Deoband seminary AGAINST TERRORISM (not that

> these make any difference). Kindly also note that a fatwa is not an

> order or a decree, nor it is legally binding on any one. Literally,

> fatwa means an opinion. But the word has been made out to be something

> horrible - like a missile issued by a Ayatollah Khomieni.

> 

> Darool-Uloom Deoband issues fatwa against terrorism

> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4045862.ece

> 

> Muslim seminary issues fatwa against terrorism

>
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/muslim-seminary-issues-fatwa-ag

> ainst-terrorism-838162.html

> 

> Darool-Uloom Deoband issues fatwa against terror

> http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-33848320080601

> 

> Deoband issues fatwa against terrorism

> http://www.idsa.in/TWIR/6_1_2008_DarulUloom

> 

> Deoband declaration against terrorism

> http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=1874

> 

> YouTube - Islamic Scholars Issue Fatwa Against Terrorism

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW_AoEUwFZA

> 

> Islamic body issues fatwa against terrorism

> http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?576402

> 

> Punjab chief mufti issues fatwa against terrorism

>
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-chief-mufti-issues-fatwa-aga

> inst-terrorism/articleshow/1820782.cms

> 

> Ulema, Muftis ratify fatwa against terrorism

> http://www.hinduonnet.com/2008/11/09/stories/2008110959951100.htm

> 

> 6000 Muslim Clerics Endorse Fatwa against terrorism

> http://www.juancole.com/2008/11/6000-muslim-clerics-endorse-fatwa.html

> 

> Syed Soharwardy's fatwa against terrorism

> http://www.nationalpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=2475287

> 

> Imams issue fatwa against terrorism

>
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2010/01/09/Imams-issue-fatwa-again

> st-terrorism/UPI-23331263019227/

> 

> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Bipin <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:

> 

>> We never heard Deoband or other Islamic organization issuing fatwa
against

> terrorists or terrorists group, why?

>> 

>> Why this full body scanning requires nowadays? Nobody wants to do it

> willingly, but terrorist activity forced to do the same. So, instead of

> giving fatwa against this, Deoband must control the terrorists and do

> something to stop the terrorism.

>> 

>> Thanks

>> Bipin

>> 

>> 

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net
[mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net]

> On Behalf Of Javed

>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:37 PM

>> To: sarai list

>> Subject: [Reader-list] Body scanning violation of Sharia

>> 

>> Although almost everyone in the west is debating the pros and cons of

>> the full-body scanning (see the link at the bottom), but as soon as

>> the Deoband issues a fatwa against this, everyone in India will

>> condemn the fatwa and support the body-scanning as the best security

>> measure.

>> 

>> -----

>> Body scanning violation of Sharia: Darul Uloom

>> Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui, TNN, 16 February 2010, 05:42am IST

>> 

> 

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