[Reader-list] Geelani announced one Article of the Constitutionof Free Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy"
Pheeta Ram
pheeta.ram at gmail.com
Sun Oct 24 03:00:05 IST 2010
Any act of self-defense against a tyrant is never violence. Any act by a
tyrant, however seemingly benevolent, is always violence.
If i catch you by your throat and you try to push me in order to save
yourself, would you like to call your act of self-defense 'violence'? You
won't. It is the will to self-preservation that makes life possible on this
earth. Try choking yourself to death, you can't for your own body shall
rebel against you, it shall breathe itself out of your grasp. The right to
rebellion is inbuilt in the human body, is always already given. Bodies
don't lie!
Remember, little David brought down the giant Goliath by stones. The
mythical image of the stone-pelter goes back ages. Please don't bullshit
about unholy 'violence-non-violence' dyad, it gives bullshit a bad name!
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 1:35 AM, TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
> But dear Inder Salim ji. I think I read that statement and expressed my
> skepticism. If Inder Salim ji says he does not support violence but
> glorifies stone pelters on any forum to do with Kashmiri separatists, I will
> have reason to be skeptical about his statement about nonviolence.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Inder Salim" <indersalim at gmail.com>
> To: "reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 3:52 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Geelani announced one Article of the
> Constitutionof Free Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy"
>
>
> But dear Taraprakash ji
>> Shudda concludes
>>
>> "By the way, none of this means that I agree with Mr. SAS Geelani;s
>> vision of the future. I am merely stating the facts that I know and
>> witnessed."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Inbox
>> X
>>
>> cashmeeri
>> Geelani announced one Article of the Constitution of Free Kashmir - its
>> "Liqu...
>>
>> 2:38 PM (22 hours ago)
>>
>> Reply
>>
>> |
>> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
>> Well, on these grounds, Syed Ali Shah Geelani is more moderate than
>> Mohandas ...
>>
>> 3:03 PM (22 hours ago)
>> Shuddhabrata SenguptaLoading...
>> 3:03 PM (22 hours ago)
>> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
>> to cashmeeri, Sarai
>>
>> show details 3:03 PM (22 hours ago)
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, on these grounds, Syed Ali Shah Geelani is more moderate than
>> Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who advocated total prohibition,
>> (regardless of whether one was or was not a believer in any religion)
>> and was even against the drinking of tea. Does that mean that we think
>> that his vision of 'Ram Rajya' would be identical to what Aalok Aima
>> considers to be an Islamic state?
>>
>> Incidentally, the state of Gujarat, has consistently imposed total
>> prohibition in deference to M.K. Gandhi's ideas on prohibition for as
>> long as it has existed as a state of the Indian Union. So, as per Mr.
>> Aima's suggestion, would we now be prepared to admit that Mr. Modi's
>> Gujarat (and the Gujarat of all his predecessors) is the closest we
>> have come to having an 'islamic State' in India. Oh no, the closest we
>> actually came to being an Islamic state in India was actually during
>> Morarji Desai;s prime ministership, when some of the current champions
>> of Hindutva were in power, when total prohibition was imposed on all
>> of India. In fact we came even closer than the vision of SAS Geelani,
>> which at least allows the 'non-believer' his or her daily tipple?
>> Incidentally, Mr. Geelani went on to suggest that if a bottle of
>> alchohl belongiing to a non believer was willingly or unwillingly
>> damaged by a Muslim, then the state would have to compensate the
>> non-believer for that damage. I haven;t quite heard of an Islamic
>> state willing to pay people to drink alchohl (if their bottle has been
>> damaged). He went on to quote an 'aayat' that said - "Muslims, do not
>> insult even the idols (but) of the idol worshippers, for they will
>> insult your God in return" and that the obligations of humanity are
>> binding in our relations even with those we consider to be our
>> enemies. Interesting stuff, coming as it does from the man who is so
>> offen held up as a figure of inflexible bigotry.
>>
>> By the way, none of this means that I agree with Mr. SAS Geelani;s
>> vision of the future. I am merely stating the facts that I know and
>> witnessed.
>>
>> best
>>
>> Shuddha
>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22-Oct-10, at 2:38 PM, cashmeeri wrote:
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Geelani announced one Article of the Constitution of Free Kashmir
>> - its "Liquor Policy":
>>
>> http://www.prokerala.com/news/articles/a176267.html
>>
>> "The system of justice in an independent Jammu and Kashmir would
>> be such that even liquor would not be banned for non-Muslims. It would
>> be prohibited fo......r the Muslim majority but if minorities feel
>> they want to have liquor they would be allowed to consume as their
>> right,"
>>
>> Hello!!!! Hello!!!!
>> I thought it was going to be a Secular Free Kashmir. This sounds
>> suspiciously like an Islamic Free Kashmir.
>>
>> Interesting prospect : Free Kashmir ..... no Non-Muslims ..... no Liquor
>>
>> Maybe it is the "Tourism Policy"
>>
>> ............. aalok aima
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>
>>
>> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
>> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
>> Raqs Media Collective
>> shuddha at sarai.net
>> www.sarai.net
>> www.raqsmediacollective.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> Reply
>>
>> Reply to all
>>
>> Forward
>>
>>
>>
>> Reply
>>
>> |
>> TaraPrakash
>> to Shuddhabrata, cashmeeri, Sarai
>>
>> show details 9:49 PM (15 hours ago)
>>
>> The point probably the mailer was making and you are missing is that
>> the assumption is that SASG's "free" Kashmir will be primarily an
>> Islamic state that will allow some unislamic things to happen. This is
>> the same vision of Hindu Rashtra that Advani was selling to Indians
>> when BJP was being seen as taking power away in India.
>>
>> That you don't necessarily agree with SASG makes no freaking sense to
>> me especially when you have unequivocally blatantly unskeptically
>> defended and justified SASG on this forum. By becoming a SASG stooge
>> you have joined the ranks of RSS. By putting SASG and MK Gandhi in the
>> same sentence you killed the embodiment of nonviolence once more, and
>> joined RSS ranks in more than one way.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" <
>> shuddha at sarai.net>
>> To: "cashmeeri" <cashmeeri at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: "Sarai" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 5:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Geelani announced one Article of the
>> Constitutionof Free Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy"
>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, on these grounds, Syed Ali Shah Geelani is more moderate
>> than Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who advocated total prohibition,
>> (regardless of whether one was or was not a believer in any religion)
>> and was even against the drinking of tea. Does that mean that we
>> think that his vision of 'Ram Rajya' would be identical to what
>> Aalok Aima considers to be an Islamic state?
>>
>> Incidentally, the state of Gujarat, has consistently imposed total
>> prohibition in deference to M.K. Gandhi's ideas on prohibition for as
>> long as it has existed as a state of the Indian Union. So, as per Mr.
>> Aima's suggestion, would we now be prepared to admit that Mr. Modi's
>> Gujarat (and the Gujarat of all his predecessors) is the closest we
>> have come to having an 'islamic State' in India. Oh no, the closest
>> we actually came to being an Islamic state in India was actually
>> during Morarji Desai;s prime ministership, when some of the current
>> champions of Hindutva were in power, when total prohibition was
>> imposed on all of India. In fact we came even closer than the vision
>> of SAS Geelani, which at least allows the 'non-believer' his or her
>> daily tipple? Incidentally, Mr. Geelani went on to suggest that if a
>> bottle of alchohl belongiing to a non believer was willingly or
>> unwillingly damaged by a Muslim, then the state would have to
>> compensate the non-believer for that damage. I haven;t quite heard of
>> an Islamic state willing to pay people to drink alchohl (if their
>> bottle has been damaged). He went on to quote an 'aayat' that said -
>> "Muslims, do not insult even the idols (but) of the idol worshippers,
>> for they will insult your God in return" and that the obligations of
>> humanity are binding in our relations even with those we consider to
>> be our enemies. Interesting stuff, coming as it does from the man
>> who is so offen held up as a figure of inflexible bigotry.
>>
>> By the way, none of this means that I agree with Mr. SAS Geelani;s
>> vision of the future. I am merely stating the facts that I know and
>> witnessed.
>>
>> best
>>
>> Shuddha
>>
>>
>> On 22-Oct-10, at 2:38 PM, cashmeeri wrote:
>>
>>
>> Geelani announced one Article of the Constitution of Free
>> Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy":
>>
>> http://www.prokerala.com/news/articles/a176267.html
>>
>> "The system of justice in an independent Jammu and Kashmir
>> would be such that even liquor would not be banned for non-Muslims.
>> It would be prohibited fo......r the Muslim majority but if
>> minorities feel they want to have liquor they would be allowed to
>> consume as their right,"
>>
>> Hello!!!! Hello!!!!
>> I thought it was going to be a Secular Free Kashmir. This
>> sounds suspiciously like an Islamic Free Kashmir.
>>
>> Interesting prospect : Free Kashmir ..... no Non-Muslims .....
>> no Liquor
>>
>> Maybe it is the "Tourism Policy"
>>
>> ............. aalok aima
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
>> with subscribe in the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>
>>
>> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
>> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
>> Raqs Media Collective
>> shuddha at sarai.net
>> www.sarai.net
>> www.raqsmediacollective.net
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> Reply
>>
>> Reply to all
>>
>> Forward
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:49 PM, TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The point probably the mailer was making and you are missing is that the
>>> assumption is that SASG's "free" Kashmir will be primarily an Islamic
>>> state
>>> that will allow some unislamic things to happen. This is the same vision
>>> of
>>> Hindu Rashtra that Advani was selling to Indians when BJP was being seen
>>> as
>>> taking power away in India.
>>>
>>> That you don't necessarily agree with SASG makes no freaking sense to me
>>> especially when you have unequivocally blatantly unskeptically defended
>>> and
>>> justified SASG on this forum. By becoming a SASG stooge you have joined
>>> the
>>> ranks of RSS. By putting SASG and MK Gandhi in the same sentence you
>>> killed
>>> the embodiment of nonviolence once more, and joined RSS ranks in more
>>> than
>>> one way.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta"
>>> <shuddha at sarai.net>
>>> To: "cashmeeri" <cashmeeri at yahoo.com>
>>> Cc: "Sarai" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 5:33 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Geelani announced one Article of the
>>> Constitutionof Free Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, on these grounds, Syed Ali Shah Geelani is more moderate than
>>>> Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who advocated total prohibition, (regardless
>>>> of
>>>> whether one was or was not a believer in any religion) and was even
>>>> against
>>>> the drinking of tea. Does that mean that we think that his vision of
>>>> 'Ram
>>>> Rajya' would be identical to what Aalok Aima considers to be an Islamic
>>>> state?
>>>>
>>>> Incidentally, the state of Gujarat, has consistently imposed total
>>>> prohibition in deference to M.K. Gandhi's ideas on prohibition for as
>>>> long
>>>> as it has existed as a state of the Indian Union. So, as per Mr. Aima's
>>>> suggestion, would we now be prepared to admit that Mr. Modi's Gujarat
>>>> (and
>>>> the Gujarat of all his predecessors) is the closest we have come to
>>>> having
>>>> an 'islamic State' in India. Oh no, the closest we actually came to
>>>> being
>>>> an Islamic state in India was actually during Morarji Desai;s prime
>>>> ministership, when some of the current champions of Hindutva were in
>>>> power,
>>>> when total prohibition was imposed on all of India. In fact we came even
>>>> closer than the vision of SAS Geelani, which at least allows the
>>>> 'non-believer' his or her daily tipple? Incidentally, Mr. Geelani went
>>>> on
>>>> to suggest that if a bottle of alchohl belongiing to a non believer was
>>>> willingly or unwillingly damaged by a Muslim, then the state would have
>>>> to
>>>> compensate the non-believer for that damage. I haven;t quite heard of an
>>>> Islamic state willing to pay people to drink alchohl (if their bottle
>>>> has
>>>> been damaged). He went on to quote an 'aayat' that said - "Muslims, do
>>>> not
>>>> insult even the idols (but) of the idol worshippers, for they will
>>>> insult
>>>> your God in return" and that the obligations of humanity are binding in
>>>> our
>>>> relations even with those we consider to be our enemies. Interesting
>>>> stuff, coming as it does from the man who is so offen held up as a
>>>> figure
>>>> of inflexible bigotry.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, none of this means that I agree with Mr. SAS Geelani;s
>>>> vision
>>>> of the future. I am merely stating the facts that I know and witnessed.
>>>>
>>>> best
>>>>
>>>> Shuddha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 22-Oct-10, at 2:38 PM, cashmeeri wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Geelani announced one Article of the Constitution of Free Kashmir - its
>>>>> "Liquor Policy":
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.prokerala.com/news/articles/a176267.html
>>>>>
>>>>> "The system of justice in an independent Jammu and Kashmir would be
>>>>> such
>>>>> that even liquor would not be banned for non-Muslims. It would be
>>>>> prohibited fo......r the Muslim majority but if minorities feel they
>>>>> want
>>>>> to have liquor they would be allowed to consume as their right,"
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello!!!! Hello!!!!
>>>>> I thought it was going to be a Secular Free Kashmir. This sounds
>>>>> suspiciously like an Islamic Free Kashmir.
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting prospect : Free Kashmir ..... no Non-Muslims ..... no
>>>>> Liquor
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe it is the "Tourism Policy"
>>>>>
>>>>> ............. aalok aima
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _________________________________________
>>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>>>> Critiques & Collaborations
>>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>>>>> subscribe in the subject header.
>>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
>>>> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
>>>> Raqs Media Collective
>>>> shuddha at sarai.net
>>>> www.sarai.net
>>>> www.raqsmediacollective.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________
>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>>> Critiques & Collaborations
>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>>>> subscribe in the subject header.
>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________
>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>> Critiques & Collaborations
>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>>> subscribe
>>> in the subject header.
>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com
>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>
>
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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>
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